Debunking UFO myths in the interest of reason

Overview of the Varginha UFO Incident

The Varginha UFO incident, which took place in January 1996 in Brazil, is often cited as one of the most compelling pieces of evidence for alien visitation. The municipality of Varginha, located in Brazil's coffee-producing region, became the center of attention when three young women reported seeing a strange, oily brown creature during a rainstorm. Their description of the creature, which they initially thought to be a devil, sparked a series of unusual events involving military police and trucks, leading to widespread speculation about a cover-up involving extraterrestrial life.

Eyewitness Accounts and Military Involvement

According to ufologists, the incident escalated with claims that an alien spacecraft had crashed, and both the craft and its occupants were seized by the military, who allegedly continue to suppress the truth. The 2022 documentary "Moment of Contact" presents interviews with individuals involved in the incident, reinforcing the narrative of alien visitation. However, it also highlights how eyewitness accounts can evolve over time, with original witnesses often embellishing their stories or merging their experiences with those of others, leading to a distorted narrative filled with fantastical elements.

Critical Examination of Evidence

Despite the sensational claims surrounding the Varginha incident, it is crucial to approach the evidence critically. Nearly three decades later, there remains no concrete evidence supporting the existence of aliens or any unusual occurrence in Varginha. The initial reports from the three young women, aged 14, 16, and 22, were later scrutinized, revealing inconsistencies and a lack of corroborative evidence. For instance, the smell of ammonia reported by the women was attributed to the creature, despite the absence of any physical evidence linking it to an extraterrestrial being.

Subsequent Developments and Investigations

In the aftermath of the incident, various reports emerged, including claims of military convoys and sightings of alien beings being treated at a local hospital. However, investigations, including a military police inquiry (IPM), concluded that these events were misinterpretations of mundane occurrences. The IPM report, which spanned 357 pages, traced the origins of the reported events, finding no evidence of alien involvement. The death of a military officer, Marco Eli Chiz, who allegedly handled an alien body, was attributed to natural causes, further debunking the narrative of a cover-up.

Conclusion: The Nature of UFO Narratives

The Varginha incident serves as a case study in how UFO stories can be exaggerated and transformed over time, often lacking a basis in fact. While some continue to regard it as compelling proof of alien visitation, a thorough examination reveals it to be a classic example of how sensationalized narratives can overshadow the truth. The incident illustrates the importance of critical thinking and the need for a high standard of evidence when evaluating claims of extraterrestrial encounters.

The transcript discusses the Varginha UFO incident, which is framed as a compelling narrative of alien visitation in Brazil. This event occurred in January 1996, when three young women in the municipality of Varginha claimed to have seen an oily brown creature crouched in the mud during a storm. Their initial description of the entity led to widespread speculation and the belief that it was an alien being. As the narrative developed, it was suggested that an alien spacecraft had crashed and that both the craft and its occupants were subsequently seized by the military, who purportedly covered up the event.

This story has grown over the years, with ufologists piecing together various accounts that painted a picture of a significant extraterrestrial encounter. Yet, despite the fervent belief in the incident, the speaker notes that nearly 30 years later, there remains no concrete evidence to support claims of alien visitation or any unusual happenings in Varginha. The narrative has been characterized by sensationalism, with various embellishments added over time, including reports of military convoys and medical treatments of alleged aliens at local hospitals.

Thus, the Varginha incident serves as a prime example of how a local occurrence can become woven into a larger mythos of extraterrestrial contact, despite the lack of any substantiated proof.

•  
  • [00:40] "They reported they’d seen a devil but that wasn’t all..."
  • [01:27] "...a stark example of how these stories grow and change enormously over the years..."
  • [02:52] "...there is still not a single piece of evidence that aliens walk among us nor even any evidence that anything at all happened in Varginha in 1996..."

The timeline of the Varginha UFO incident begins on January 20, 1996, when three young women reported seeing a mysterious creature. The incident sparked a series of events that led to heightened local interest and speculation regarding alien visitation. In the days following, reports surfaced of other unusual occurrences, including sightings of a UFO by local farmers and military activity in the area.

Over the years, the narrative expanded significantly. Eyewitnesses and ufologists contributed to a growing body of claims, often adding new elements to the original story. For instance, reports of military trucks transporting strange equipment and even handling alien bodies emerged, although these claims lacked verification.

Significantly, the narrative evolved with the story of a local military police officer, Marco Eli Cherey, who died weeks after the incident. His death was shrouded in mystery, with unverified accounts suggesting he had encountered the alien body, leading to the belief in a cover-up by the military. This further fueled public interest and speculation.

In the later years, particularly with the release of a documentary in 2022, the narrative was further solidified as a case of alien visitation, though the original reports lacked the sensational elements that emerged over time. The speaker emphasizes how original eyewitness accounts often morph as they intermingle with new claims and cultural narratives.

•  
  • [01:24] "...ufologists have pieced together a story that an alien spacecraft had crashed..."
  • [04:14] "It was said that no cause of death could be determined but that unidentifiable toxins were found in his body..."
  • [12:36] "...the most compelling example of a case where literally nothing at all happened that was remotely unusual..."

Key figures in the Varginha UFO narrative include the three young women who reported seeing the creature, as well as prominent ufologists like Stanton Friedman. The eyewitnesses, aged 14, 16, and 22, initially described the creature as a devil and subsequently claimed they had seen an extraterrestrial being. Their accounts formed the foundation of the incident's notoriety.

Stanton Friedman was a well-known figure in the UFO community, often introduced as a nuclear physicist, although his primary contributions were as a UFO author and promoter of alien visitation narratives. He played a significant role in shaping the Varginha incident story, drawing on eyewitness testimony and crafting a compelling alien visitation narrative. His career was marked by efforts to compile and present unverified accounts as credible evidence of extraterrestrial encounters.

The officer Marco Eli Cherey, who died under mysterious circumstances shortly after the events in Varginha, also became a pivotal figure in the narrative. His death was attributed to unidentifiable toxins, which ufologists claimed were linked to his handling of an alien body, further deepening the conspiracy theories surrounding the incident.

These figures contributed to a rapidly evolving narrative, shaping public perception and belief in the Varginha UFO incident, despite the lack of substantive evidence supporting their claims.

•  
  • [05:22] "Friedman’s whole career in fact consisted of compiling bits and pieces of poor quality evidence..."
  • [04:30] "...after having handled the body of the alien he became infected with some disease..."
  • [10:54] "...the three women do still give interviews about their experience..."

The Varginha UFO incident has been scrutinized over the years, leading to several verified counter-evidence points and official explanations that debunk the myth of alien visitation. The transcript highlights that nearly 30 years later, there is still no substantial evidence to support the claims of alien encounters. The military investigation, referred to as the IPM (Military Police Inquiry), released a report consisting of 357 pages, which meticulously tracked down and explained the various events reported during that time.

One significant revelation from the IPM report was the identification of the individual seen by the three young women as Luís Antonio Japala, a local man with intellectual disabilities. The report concluded that he was likely misidentified as an alien due to his behavior and appearance during the rainy weather. The report indicated that there was nothing extraordinary about the events surrounding the incident, and all reported occurrences were unrelated.

Additionally, the military officer Marco Eli Cherey's death, which was speculated to be linked to the alien incident, was clarified in the report. It was determined that Cherey had a pre-existing health condition that led to his death, and the IPM report confirmed he had not been involved in any events related to the January 20th sighting. The narrative surrounding military trucks delivering mysterious equipment was also debunked, revealing that they were delivering routine medical supplies, not alien technologies.

•  
  • [07:12] "...none of which had anything to do with each other and none of which involved aliens or crashed flying saucers..."
  • [07:36] "...had been scheduled for an operation to remove it even before the incident..."
  • [09:10] "...the more probable hypothesis is that this citizen probably dirty due to the rains and crouching next to a wall..."

The construction of the Varginha UFO narrative involved stitching together various unrelated local occurrences and weaving them into a singular conspiracy narrative. The initial event, which involved the three young women witnessing a creature, was followed by a flurry of reports from locals recounting any unusual sightings or happenings in the days surrounding the incident. This led to a collective belief that a significant extraterrestrial event had transpired.

For example, two farmers reported seeing a UFO days prior, which encouraged the community to share any bizarre experiences they had observed, thus expanding the narrative. The military activity in the area became an integral component of the story, with claims of military trucks transporting alien bodies and equipment, despite these being debunked as routine operations unrelated to the alleged alien encounter.

The narrative became further complicated by the tragic death of military officer Marco Eli Cherey, which some claimed was linked to the incident due to the unverified presence of toxins in his body. This connection was exploited to bolster the conspiracy theories, despite the IPM report clarifying that there was no evidence supporting any direct link between Cherey's death and the events of January 20, 1996.

Ultimately, the Varginha incident exemplifies how separate, unrelated occurrences can be interwoven into a cohesive narrative that captures public interest, often fueled by sensationalism and the desire for a compelling story, rather than factual evidence.

•  
  • [03:03] "...the inevitable result is a story full of incredible events all supported by amazingly trustworthy witnesses..."
  • [10:34] "...the convoy of military trucks going through town was nothing more than a convoy of military trucks going through town..."
  • [11:03] "...the ambulance was dropping off a corpse that had been exhumed as part of an ongoing criminal investigation..."

[00:00] [Music]
[00:03] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:05] Dunning from skeptoid decom Brazil's
[00:09] Roswell the vinia
[00:13] UFO it happened in January of
[00:16] 1996 and came to be known as the most
[00:18] compelling proof of alien visitation in
[00:21] Brazil vinia is a municipality deep
[00:25] inside Brazil's coffee region many
[00:27] Brazilian plantations coffee output
[00:30] flows through here but unfortunately it
[00:33] is less well known for that than for the
[00:35] evening of January 20th when three young
[00:38] women saw an oily Brown creature
[00:40] kneeling in the mud and rain and fled
[00:44] they reported they'd seen a devil but
[00:47] that wasn't all a series of strange
[00:49] events throughout Town most of it
[00:51] involving military police and trucks
[00:53] attracted even more attention today
[00:56] ufologists have pieced together a story
[00:59] that an Ian spacecraft had crashed that
[01:02] both craft and occupants had been seized
[01:05] by the military and that the military
[01:07] covers it up to this
[01:10] day if you want the entire story As Told
[01:13] by the ufologists you have a great
[01:15] source the 2022 documentary moment of
[01:19] contact interviews a number of the
[01:21] people who were involved and presents it
[01:24] as a true case of alien visitation it
[01:27] also offers a stark example of how these
[01:29] stor stories grow and change enormously
[01:33] over the years original eyewitnesses
[01:36] tend to add story elements often
[01:38] bridging their own Recollections to
[01:40] those of others new people intrigued at
[01:43] the prospect of some notoriety always
[01:45] quote come forward and claim to have
[01:48] been there and imaginative authors
[01:51] always always always add no end of
[01:55] creative enhancements that over time
[01:57] blend in and come to be accepted as part
[01:59] part of the standard narrative the
[02:01] inevitable result is a story full of
[02:03] incredible events all supported by
[02:06] amazingly trustworthy I Witnesses all
[02:09] inexplicable as anything Earthly such a
[02:13] tapestry offers fertile soil for any
[02:15] documentary filmmaker one thing such
[02:18] filmmakers hope you never do is go back
[02:20] and read the original newspaper accounts
[02:23] because what you tend to discover is
[02:25] that almost nothing particularly
[02:27] interesting happened until later years
[02:31] funed the facts with
[02:34] embellishments calling the vaginia UFO
[02:37] the most compelling proof of alien
[02:40] visitation is a very strong statement
[02:43] especially given that today nearly 30
[02:45] years later there is still not a single
[02:48] piece of evidence that aliens walk among
[02:50] us nor even any evidence that anything
[02:52] at all happened in vinia in 1996 so let
[02:56] us take a very hard and very critical
[02:59] look at this this
[03:01] event the three young women aged 14 16
[03:05] and 22 saw the creature during a
[03:07] blustery rainstorm the younger two were
[03:10] sisters who ran home and sent their
[03:12] mother to go see the mother reported
[03:14] nothing but a smell of ammonia even
[03:16] though the winds were reported to be
[03:18] quite strong the ufologists still
[03:21] attributed that smell to the creature
[03:22] the girls had
[03:24] seen once this was reported in the local
[03:27] news as an alien two farmers a married
[03:30] couple reported that they'd watched a
[03:32] UFO hovering over their field several
[03:34] days earlier this was reported as well
[03:38] and that's when people started taking
[03:40] account of just about anything unusual
[03:41] they'd seen over those days some of the
[03:44] most commonly retold events are that a
[03:46] convoy of military trucks went roaring
[03:48] through town a pair of short alien
[03:51] beings were seen being treated at a
[03:53] local hospital and also at the same
[03:55] Hospital mysterious trucks delivered a
[03:58] large amount of mechanical equipment or
[04:00] parts as well as a body in a body
[04:04] bag Brazilian ufologists wrote and spoke
[04:08] a lot about the incident but the
[04:10] government itself took no notice at
[04:13] least they didn't until the death of a
[04:14] military police officer Marco Eli shizi
[04:18] only 23 years old he died some weeks
[04:21] after the incident it was said that no
[04:23] cause of death could be determined but
[04:25] that unidentifiable toxins were found in
[04:28] his body it is reported that that after
[04:30] having handled the body of the alien he
[04:32] became infected with some disease and
[04:34] succumbed to it investigators later
[04:36] wanted to exume his body for study but
[04:39] were refused by a judge for reasons of
[04:42] National Security with this final straw
[04:45] public outcry for the truth about the
[04:47] aliens was such that the military opened
[04:50] an official investigation into the
[04:53] reports UFO author Stanton fredman got
[04:57] into this story as well although
[04:59] Freedman died in 2019 he appears in
[05:01] moment of contact and tells the basic
[05:04] story of the crashed spaceship the
[05:06] wandering aliens and the military trucks
[05:09] hauling away the wreckage he's usually
[05:11] introduced in UFO films as a nuclear
[05:14] physicist but in fact he was a career
[05:17] UFO author and lifelong promoter of
[05:20] alien visitation
[05:22] claims fredman's whole career in fact
[05:25] consisted of compiling bits and pieces
[05:27] of poor quality evidence mainly
[05:30] unverified eyewitness testimony usually
[05:32] taken years or decades after an event
[05:36] and then composing an original alien
[05:38] visitation story that incorporates all
[05:40] those bits and is presented as the
[05:42] factual account of what happened he's
[05:45] best known as the original author of the
[05:47] Roswell mythology in which he worked
[05:49] with a retired mortician named Glenn
[05:52] Dennis in 1989 more than four decades
[05:56] after the 1947 Roswell crash was alleged
[06:00] to have happen fredman carefully wo
[06:02] together a string of Snippets of
[06:03] Dennis's assorted memories of having
[06:05] worked in that town and created the
[06:08] story we know today of a spaceship crash
[06:10] and small alien bodies being recovered
[06:13] it was published in
[06:14] 1991 the first time that story even
[06:18] existed fredman couldn't have cared less
[06:21] that the things Dennis thought he
[06:22] remembered actually took place over a
[06:24] span of 12 years and had nothing to do
[06:27] with each other his goal was to craft an
[06:29] original UFO narrative that was
[06:32] fredman's thing that was what he did
[06:35] professionally so take Stanton fredman's
[06:37] appearance in moment of contact with a
[06:40] very large grain of salt and be aware
[06:43] that what you're hearing comes from a
[06:44] man whose job was to take a few random
[06:47] unrelated unverified reports and tie
[06:50] them all together into an alien
[06:52] visitation
[06:54] story at last the military investigation
[06:57] released its report called an IPM for
[07:00] military police inquiry it was 357 pages
[07:05] and managed to track down the original
[07:06] cause of each of the many events
[07:08] reported none of which had anything to
[07:10] do with each other and none of which
[07:12] involved aliens or crashed flying
[07:16] saucers sherei the young military police
[07:19] officer who died did indeed die the IPM
[07:23] report was not even necessary to tell us
[07:26] this as there was nothing secret or
[07:27] strange about his death which was report
[07:29] reported in the newspapers sherei had
[07:32] had for some time a cyst under his left
[07:34] armpit and had been scheduled for an
[07:36] operation to remove it even before the
[07:38] incident later in the hospital the
[07:41] surgical site became infected and he
[07:43] died tragic but neither unusual nor
[07:46] unexplained and certainly insufficient
[07:49] to Grant ufologists permission to exume
[07:52] his body the one thing the IPM report
[07:54] did add was that Shari had not been
[07:57] involved with any events on January 20th
[07:59] despite any number of people coming out
[08:01] in the decade since to claim that he had
[08:04] been an easy claim to make since sherei
[08:07] was no longer around to defend
[08:10] himself the IPM report even successfully
[08:13] identified the creature seen by the
[08:16] three young women the place where the
[08:18] creature was spotted was the home of
[08:20] Luis Antonio japala about 30 years old
[08:23] and intellectually disabled who lived
[08:26] there with his parents and family as
[08:28] japala was nonverbal locals had
[08:31] nicknamed him muino which means little
[08:34] mute muino was known to the neighbors to
[08:37] spend his time crouching and examining
[08:39] small objects he found like cigarette
[08:42] butts and sticks there are photographs
[08:44] of him floating around the Portuguese
[08:46] language internet very skinny hunched
[08:49] over squatting as he studies a twig and
[08:52] apparently wearing a diaper at last
[08:54] report muino still lives there to this
[08:56] day and still continues his favorite
[08:59] activity the lead author of The IPM
[09:01] report Lieutenant Colonel Lucio Carlos
[09:04] Pereira wrote the more probable
[09:07] hypothesis is that this citizen probably
[09:10] dirty due to the rains and crouching
[09:11] next to a wall was mistaken by three
[09:14] terrified girls for a space
[09:17] creature as muino did live there and
[09:20] that was his typical Behavior then for
[09:23] the young women to have seen a space
[09:24] creature there would have to have been
[09:26] two such beings the known one Geno and
[09:30] the hypothetical one an alien but as
[09:32] they reported only one skinny humanoid
[09:35] crouching in the mud and not two we are
[09:38] left with no rational support for there
[09:40] having been any beings present other
[09:42] than
[09:44] muino today the three women do still
[09:46] give interviews about their experience
[09:49] there's one very important detail that
[09:51] has changed since their original story
[09:54] today they say they knew muino well and
[09:57] had even given him cigarettes in the
[09:59] past so of course they would not have
[10:01] mistaken him for an alien however in
[10:04] their original reports from
[10:06] 1996 they said they didn't know him and
[10:09] took him for a devil when they saw him
[10:11] it's one more example of stories
[10:13] changing and growing to fit a changing
[10:16] and growing narrative that gains Mass
[10:18] Traction in pop culture everyone wants
[10:21] to be in on it and everyone wants to be
[10:23] seen as credible and
[10:26] correct the Convoy of military trucks
[10:29] going through town was nothing more than
[10:32] a convoy of military trucks going
[10:34] through town to be dropped off for
[10:36] scheduled maintenance which was exactly
[10:38] what happened to them the trucks
[10:41] dropping off strange mechanisms at the
[10:43] hospital were delivering new
[10:44] cardiovascular equipment the ambulance
[10:47] was dropping off a corpse that had been
[10:49] exhumed as part of an ongoing criminal
[10:52] investigation the pair of small aliens
[10:54] at the hospital were expectant parents
[10:57] having their baby delivered and were
[10:59] little
[11:01] people all of this information is widely
[11:03] available and Pops right up during the
[11:06] most cursory search and so the producers
[11:08] of programs like moment of contact
[11:11] absolutely had this information for them
[11:14] to have not come across it they would
[11:16] have had to be implausibly incompetent
[11:18] researchers they'd have known the
[11:20] history and practices of writers like
[11:22] Stan fredman so when programming comes
[11:25] out that suggests something mysterious
[11:27] or suppressed took place
[11:29] we can confidently conclude that its
[11:31] creators had no interest in being
[11:33] truthful but were merely just another in
[11:36] a long assembly line of generic
[11:39] sensationalized UFO
[11:42] mythology time and time again from the
[11:45] Roswell non-event of 1947 to the Phoenix
[11:49] Lights of
[11:51] 1997 we see UFO stories explained with
[11:54] verified facts down to the Last Detail
[11:57] with all the evidence presented and yet
[11:59] there are still true believers who scoff
[12:02] at that dismiss it as fake evidence that
[12:04] proves a coverup conspiracy and insist
[12:08] upon their preferred alien visitation
[12:11] explanation with no evidence at all some
[12:14] minds are absolutely closed to any but
[12:17] their own preferred explanation while
[12:20] some say that the vajia UFO story is the
[12:23] most compelling proof of alien
[12:26] visitation I come to a different
[12:28] conclusion but still willing to Grant it
[12:30] most compelling status it is the most
[12:33] compelling example of a case where
[12:36] literally nothing at all happened that
[12:38] was remotely unusual and was magnified
[12:40] into a case considered unassailable
[12:43] proof of alien visitation by many to
[12:47] those Believers I would suggest
[12:50] recalibrating where you set the bar for
[12:53] quality of evidence
[12:56] [Music]
[13:00] but you know who already has a high
[13:01] standard of evidence skeptoid premium
[13:04] supporters such as Dave
[13:06] pasquantonio Alex Zar Gareth Priceless
[13:10] from New Zealand and Karen Koy did you
[13:14] know you can have skeptoid come to you I
[13:16] love doing live shows either at Meetup
[13:19] clubs University groups and conferences
[13:22] I can show one of our movies like
[13:24] science friction do a live podcast or
[13:28] just give one of my popular
[13:30] presentations for more information come
[13:32] to skeptoid
[13:38] docomo you're listening to skeptoid a
[13:41] listener supported program I'm Brian
[13:43] Dunning from skeptoid
[13:45] [Music]

Introduction
In this episode of Skeptoid, Brian Dunning delves into the infamous Roswell incident of 1947, a pivotal event in UFO lore. The discussion begins with the historical context surrounding the incident, specifically focusing on the events that transpired in July of that year when a balloon train crashed on the Foster Ranch, located 75 miles northwest of Roswell, New Mexico.

The Initial Incident
Rancher Mac Brazel discovered the debris and, influenced by contemporary reports of flying saucers, reported it to the local sheriff. The sheriff subsequently informed Major Jesse Marcel at the Roswell Army Airfield. The debris, which weighed approximately five pounds and consisted of materials like foil and aluminum, was collected by military officials. This balloon train was part of Project Mogul, a covert operation designed to detect Soviet nuclear tests using high-altitude balloons.

Media Coverage and Miscommunication
The Roswell Daily Record initially reported the recovery of a "flying saucer," but quickly issued a correction, stating it was merely a weather balloon. Brazel expressed regret over the unwanted publicity stemming from his misidentification. Notably, after this correction, the incident faded from public discourse for over three decades until it was revived in 1978 by the National Enquirer, which reignited interest in the original claims.

Revival of Interest and Conspiracy Theories
Stanton Friedman, a UFO enthusiast, began interviewing individuals connected to the incident, leading to the development of elaborate conspiracy theories suggesting a government cover-up of an alien spacecraft. In 1980, authors William Moore and Charles Berlitz published "The Roswell Incident," which compiled various interviews and speculations but lacked new evidence. The narrative surrounding Roswell continued to evolve, particularly after a 1989 episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" featured Glenn Dennis, a former mortician who claimed to have witnessed alien bodies.

Glenn Dennis's Claims and Their Examination
Dennis's recollections became foundational to modern Roswell mythology, despite being based on memories he had not revisited for decades. His claims included encounters with military personnel, descriptions of alien bodies, and mysterious autopsies. However, investigations revealed discrepancies in his timeline and the events he described, suggesting that many of his memories were conflated with incidents that occurred years later.

Critical Analysis of Key Events
Dunning systematically analyzes Dennis's claims, highlighting inconsistencies such as the rank of airman not existing until after 1947, and the identification of nurses and military personnel who were not present during the original incident. The discussion emphasizes that many of Dennis's experiences likely stemmed from events in the 1950s rather than the 1947 crash.

Conclusion
The episode concludes by urging listeners to approach the Roswell narrative with skepticism, contrasting the mundane, evidence-supported accounts of the initial incident with the fantastical and often conflicting stories that emerged later. Dunning encourages further exploration of official reports and literature to gain a clearer understanding of the Roswell incident, reinforcing the importance of critical thinking in evaluating extraordinary claims.

The core myth surrounding the Roswell incident revolves around a supposed alien spacecraft that crashed in July 1947 in Roswell, New Mexico. This narrative gained traction after rancher Mac Brazel discovered debris on his property, which he reported to the local sheriff. The sheriff, in turn, informed Major Jesse Marcel at the Roswell Army Airfield. Initial reports described the debris as a 'flying saucer', but a follow-up correction claimed it was merely a weather balloon. This misidentification triggered a media frenzy that would lay the groundwork for decades of speculation about alien visitation. The incident remained largely dormant until it was resurrected in 1978 by UFO enthusiasts, particularly Stanton Friedman, who began interviewing surviving witnesses and promoting conspiracy theories about government cover-ups of extraterrestrial encounters.

• [01:11] "...reported that a flying saucer was captured and the following day printed a correction that it was merely a weather balloon..."
• [01:30] "...and nothing further was said or done by anyone until 1978..."
• [02:00] "...began constructing all sorts of elaborate conspiracies..."

The timeline of the Roswell incident begins in July 1947, when a balloon train from a secret military project, known as Project Mogul, crashed on the Foster Ranch. Rancher Mac Brazel discovered the debris and reported it, leading to initial claims of a 'flying saucer'. The narrative quieted after military officials clarified that it was a weather balloon. For the next 31 years, the story faded from public consciousness until the National Enquirer reignited interest in 1978 by publishing the original claims. This led to increased speculation and interviews conducted by Friedman and others. In 1980, the book The Roswell Incident was published, which consolidated various testimonies but added little new evidence. The narrative expanded significantly after a 1989 episode of Unsolved Mysteries featured claims from former mortician Glenn Dennis, leading to further embellishments and the introduction of modern UFO lore.

• [01:17] "...and the following day printed a correction that it was merely a weather balloon..."
• [01:30] "...and nothing further was said or done by anyone until 1978..."
• [02:20] "...published the Roswell incident there wasn’t much new information in this book..."

Several key figures played crucial roles in shaping the Roswell narrative over the years. Mac Brazel, the rancher who first discovered the debris, reported it to local authorities, igniting the initial media frenzy. Major Jesse Marcel, an intelligence officer at the Roswell Army Airfield, became a central figure after he was involved in the recovery of the debris. In 1978, Stanton Friedman, a nuclear physicist and UFO researcher, began interviewing individuals connected to the incident, promoting the idea of a government cover-up. His efforts resurrected interest in the case, leading to a cascade of conspiracy theories. Another significant figure is Glenn Dennis, a former mortician whose recollections in 1989 about allegedly seeing alien bodies and interactions with military personnel became foundational to modern Roswell mythology. His account, combined with Friedman’s conjectures, helped solidify the idea of an extraterrestrial encounter.

• [01:39] "...when the National Enquirer...reported the original uncorrected article from the Roswell Daily Record..."
• [02:17] "...UFO proponents William Moore and Charles Berlitz published the Roswell Incident..."
• [02:35] "...the story of an alien crash at Roswell are based upon the personal recollections of Glenn Dennis..."

Counter-evidence and official explanations that debunk the alien visitation narrative are crucial in understanding the Roswell incident. The debris recovered by Major Jesse Marcel was conclusively identified as part of Project Mogul, which involved high-altitude balloons used to detect Soviet nuclear tests. This was clarified shortly after the incident when the military issued a correction stating it was a weather balloon. Moreover, many key narratives attributed to Glenn Dennis were found to have inconsistencies. For instance, his recollections of the 'threatening colonel' and the 'nurse' involved were corroborated by Air Force researchers, but they revealed that these events happened over a span of years rather than in July 1947. Additionally, many claims about alien bodies were linked to a real incident involving a military aircraft crash in 1956, further undermining the credibility of the myth.

• [10:53] "...these publications are not a desperate cover-up by the Air Force..."
• [05:56] "...they happened over a span of 12 years not around a single incident in 1947..."
• [03:00] "...there still wasn’t any new information or evidence that Roswell was anything other than the Project Mogul balloon..."

The construction of a singular conspiracy narrative from separate, unrelated local occurrences is a fascinating aspect of the Roswell story. The initial incident in July 1947 involving the debris from Project Mogul became conflated with various accounts over the decades. Glenn Dennis's testimony, for instance, introduced elements such as alien bodies and government threats, which were not part of the original reports. His claims of seeing a creature with a 'huge head' and being ejected from the base by a threatening colonel were pieced together with other stories that emerged over the years. Events that occurred as late as 1956 were retroactively incorporated into the Roswell narrative, leading to a rich tapestry of conspiracy that linked mundane military activities to the idea of extraterrestrial cover-ups. This narrative expansion was largely fueled by the work of authors and researchers who sought to connect dots between disparate events, thereby crafting a cohesive and sensational storyline.

• [02:09] "...government was covering up an actual alien spacecraft..."
• [04:27] "...the multiple crash sites, the alien bodies recovered..."
• [10:24] "...if you’re truly interested in the actual explanation of some detail..."

[00:00] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:02] Dunning from skeptoid comm aliens in
[00:05] Roswell hang on to your tinfoil helmet
[00:08] because today we're going to rock it
[00:10] into the history books and see for
[00:12] ourselves exactly what fell out of the
[00:14] sky in Roswell New Mexico in 1947 in
[00:20] July of that year a balloon train came
[00:23] down on the foster ranch 75 miles
[00:25] northwest of Roswell New Mexico rancher
[00:29] Mac Brazel who had been reading about
[00:31] flying saucers reported it to the local
[00:33] sheriff who in turn reported a crashed
[00:36] flying saucer to a major Jesse Marcel at
[00:39] Roswell Army Airfield but not before the
[00:42] local press heard about it the debris
[00:44] totaling some five pounds of foil and
[00:47] aluminum and described in detail by Mac
[00:50] Brazel was recovered by officials from
[00:52] Roswell Army Airfield these balloon
[00:55] trains were long ultra low frequency
[00:57] antennas designed to detect Soviet
[01:00] nuclear tests held aloft by a large
[01:03] number of balloons and were known as
[01:05] project mogul with Marcel's press
[01:08] release in hand the Roswell Daily Record
[01:11] reported that a flying saucer was
[01:13] captured and the following day printed a
[01:16] correction that it was merely a weather
[01:17] balloon along with an interview with Mac
[01:19] Brazel who deeply regretted all the
[01:22] unwanted publicity generated by his
[01:24] misidentification it should be stressed
[01:28] that this was the end of the incident
[01:30] and nothing further was said or done by
[01:32] anyone until 1978 that's 31 years in
[01:38] which nobody remembered or said anything
[01:39] when the National Enquirer
[01:42] on what must have been a slow news day
[01:44] reported the original uncorrect 'add new
[01:46] zart achill from the Roswell Daily
[01:48] Record UFO fans went nuts Stanton
[01:52] Friedman an obsessed UFO wacko started
[01:55] interviewing everyone he could find who
[01:56] was still alive who had been connected
[01:58] with the incident and began constructing
[02:00] all sorts of elaborate conspiracies
[02:02] these primarily centered around major
[02:05] Marcel who agreed that Friedman's
[02:07] assertion was possible that the
[02:09] government was covering up an actual
[02:11] alien spacecraft
[02:14] two years later in 1980 UFO proponents
[02:17] william moore and charles berlitz
[02:20] published the roswell incident there
[02:23] wasn't much new information in this book
[02:25] it was essentially a collection of
[02:26] suppositions and interviews with a few
[02:28] people who were still alive or their
[02:31] relatives even so by this point it's
[02:33] important to note that the story really
[02:36] had not grown beyond the question of
[02:38] what debris had actually been recovered
[02:40] from the foster ranch in 1947 upon the
[02:45] book's publication the National Enquirer
[02:47] tracked down Marcel and published their
[02:50] own interview with him this was all well
[02:52] and good but since there still wasn't
[02:54] any new information or evidence that
[02:56] Roswell was anything other than the
[02:57] project mogul balloon things quieted
[03:00] down for a long time the story finally
[03:04] started to break open for real in 1989
[03:08] the TV show unsolved mysteries devoted
[03:12] an episode to an imaginative
[03:13] reconstruction of what some of these
[03:15] authors had written the national
[03:17] exposure of a TV show reached a man
[03:20] named Glenn Dennis who was quite elderly
[03:22] by now but who had worked as a young
[03:24] mortician in Roswell in 1947 and had
[03:28] provided contract mortuary services to
[03:30] Roswell Army Airfield Dennis contacted
[03:33] Stanton Friedman and told him the story
[03:35] that was to become the basis for almost
[03:37] all modern UFO lore virtually all
[03:42] popular details of the story of an alien
[03:44] crash at Roswell are based upon the
[03:47] personal recollections of Glenn Dennis
[03:49] he hadn't thought about the subject for
[03:51] 42 years until he saw the TV show
[03:55] suddenly he started putting two and two
[03:57] together tying together bits and pieces
[03:59] of this and that from his memory and
[04:01] with the help of Stanton Friedman
[04:02] connected the dots and wove the fabric
[04:05] of modern Roswell mythology authors
[04:08] Schmitt and Randall published Friedman's
[04:10] interview in UFO crash at Roswell
[04:13] published in 1991 this was the point
[04:17] that all the best-known details were
[04:19] invented the multiple crash sites the
[04:21] alien bodies recovered the child sized
[04:24] coffins aliens walking around the base
[04:27] a red-haired Colonel making death
[04:29] threats and the disappearance of a nurse
[04:31] who knew too much
[04:33] 1991 sports fans not 1947 what's worse
[04:41] is that Glenn Dennis's memory doesn't
[04:43] seem to handle dates very well
[04:45] Air Force researchers have successfully
[04:47] been able to corroborate nearly all of
[04:50] Dennis's recollections but what they
[04:52] found was that while nearly all the
[04:54] events he remembered did in fact happen
[04:56] they happened over a span of 12 years
[04:59] not around a single incident in 1947 let
[05:03] us now go through a few of the most
[05:05] significant points from the pop history
[05:07] of the Roswell incident one by one
[05:10] number one at is more chewy in Roswell
[05:14] Dennis received a call asking him to
[05:15] give a ride to an airman injured in a
[05:18] traffic accident number two at the base
[05:21] dennis noticed an ambulance filled with
[05:23] wreckage that looked like the bottom of
[05:25] a blue canoe guarded by MPs number three
[05:29] Dennis was ejected from the base by a
[05:31] big redheaded Colonel who threatened him
[05:33] with death if he revealed anything of
[05:35] what he had seen
[05:36] number four Dennis tried to telephone a
[05:39] nurse that he knew but was rebuffed by a
[05:41] head nurse nicknamed slats and whose
[05:44] real name was captain Wilson number five
[05:47] the next day Dennis successfully met
[05:50] with his nurse friend who was quite
[05:51] upset over an autopsy on three bodies
[05:54] which she described as black mangled and
[05:56] little number six
[05:59] Dennis learned of the inability of staff
[06:02] to perform an autopsy due to over
[06:04] powering fumes from the bodies which
[06:06] were then hastily moved number seven all
[06:10] further efforts to reach the nurse were
[06:12] unsuccessful he was told she was
[06:14] deceased and Dennis never saw her again
[06:18] number eight a creature with a huge head
[06:21] was seen walking into the base Medical
[06:23] Center under its own power and now let's
[06:28] look at what each of these events really
[06:29] was and why they couldn't possibly have
[06:32] all been part of something that happened
[06:34] in July 1947 number one
[06:38] Dennis's trip to the base to deliver the
[06:40] injured airman
[06:41] is not likely to have happened in July
[06:43] of 1947 as the rank of airman did not
[06:46] exist until the United States Army Air
[06:48] Forces became the United States Air
[06:50] Force in September of 1947 note that
[06:54] Roswell Army Airfield was renamed Walker
[06:57] Air Force Base at that time as well
[07:00] number two Dennis's description of the
[07:03] contents of an Air Force ambulance are
[07:05] consistent with its normal appearance
[07:07] which includes two steel panels shaped
[07:09] like the bottom of a canoe and painted
[07:11] Air Force blue number three only one
[07:16] tall captain or colonel with red hair
[07:18] was ever assigned to the base and that
[07:20] was Colonel Lee Farrell who began his
[07:23] service at the base in 1956 Dennis also
[07:27] remembered that the threatening colonel
[07:28] was accompanied by a black sergeant
[07:30] which is also virtually impossible for
[07:32] 1947 the Air Force did not begin racial
[07:36] integration until 1949 Dennis was
[07:39] probably recalling some episode that
[07:41] happened in or after 1956 and keep in
[07:45] mind he was still stretching his memory
[07:47] over 30 years number four the head nurse
[07:51] captain Wilson has been identified as
[07:54] idabelle Miller who later married and
[07:56] became major Wilson she did not begin
[07:58] her service there until 1956 slats was
[08:03] well known to be lieutenant colonel
[08:04] Lucille Slattery a different person who
[08:07] also did not arrive at Roswell until
[08:09] after the Roswell incident in her case
[08:12] the timing was much closer only one
[08:14] month afterward but one month too late
[08:16] is still too late number five Dennis's
[08:21] nurse friend has been positively
[08:22] identified as lieutenant Eileen Mae
[08:25] Phantom who was in service there during
[08:27] the Roswell incident more on her in a
[08:30] moment number 6 in 1956 a kc-97 G
[08:35] aircraft crashed killing all 11 crewmen
[08:38] in an intense cabin fire most were
[08:41] missing limbs and were largely burned
[08:43] away resulting in small black mangled
[08:46] corpses due to intense fumes from the
[08:49] fuel soaking the bodies the procedure
[08:52] had to be hastily moved to a
[08:54] refrigerated unit
[08:55] at the commissary three of the bodies
[08:58] were autopsy at Dennis's mortuary in
[09:01] Roswell bodies which Dennis described as
[09:03] small black and mangled it's entirely
[09:07] likely that Dennis's encounter with the
[09:09] angry redheaded Colonel took place
[09:11] during this exceptionally emotional and
[09:13] difficult time for the small local air
[09:16] force community number seven the reason
[09:19] Dennis ceased being able to reach
[09:20] lieutenant phantom was that she had been
[09:22] taken to Brooke General Hospital in
[09:24] Texas for emergency treatment of a pre
[09:27] diagnosed medical condition which
[09:29] ultimately led to her medical retirement
[09:30] in 1955 this information was withheld
[09:33] from Dennis simply due to patient
[09:36] privacy laws and number eight the
[09:40] sighting of a creature with a huge head
[09:41] walking into the hospital is consistent
[09:44] with the injury of Captain Dan Fulgham
[09:46] in 1959 who was struck on the head by a
[09:49] balloon gondola his forehead and face
[09:52] developed an extensive hematoma which
[09:54] swelled to quite a magnificent size he
[09:57] said he didn't feel too bad and actually
[09:58] hung out smoking a cigarette and walking
[10:00] around with a head the size of a beach
[10:02] ball now obviously I have to leave a lot
[10:05] of details out since this is a
[10:07] ten-minute podcast and can't possibly
[10:09] address the billions of data points that
[10:11] the UFO proponents have thrown out there
[10:13] if you remember my episode on logical
[10:15] fallacies you'll recognize that
[10:17] technique as proof by verbosity if
[10:20] you're truly interested in the actual
[10:22] explanation of some detail you've heard
[10:24] download the Roswell incident PDF report
[10:27] from the Air Force at AF dot mil or get
[10:31] a copy of the free Roswell report case
[10:34] closed book by Captain James McAndrew
[10:37] and published by the air force these
[10:40] publications are not a desperate
[10:41] cover-up by the Air Force they were
[10:44] required by the General Accounting
[10:45] offices official inquiry made to address
[10:48] the clamor of Freedom of Information Act
[10:50] demands from UFO proponents they contain
[10:53] a tremendous amount of detail and are
[10:56] quite entertaining reading for anyone
[10:57] interested in Roswell or the air force's
[10:59] early history but about every year or
[11:02] two someone else pops up with some new
[11:04] claim about what happened in 1947 just
[11:07] this year au
[11:09] Walter halt died leaving a written story
[11:12] about having been shown a crashed alien
[11:13] spacecraft but he lacks credibility the
[11:16] stories he told about his experience at
[11:18] Roswell grew and grew over the years and
[11:21] as the president of the International
[11:23] UFO museum he had a clear commercial
[11:26] interest in promoting these stories even
[11:29] less believable are the stories of
[11:30] Philip Corso who co-authored a
[11:32] fictionalized retelling titled the day
[11:35] after Roswell among Corsos claims are
[11:38] that lasers Kevlar fiber optics and
[11:41] integrated circuits all came from the
[11:43] Roswell spacecraft since the true
[11:46] origins of all these technologies are
[11:48] well established in the real world even
[11:51] other UFO researchers discount most of
[11:53] course those fancy tales so when you
[11:57] look at a story like Roswell look at it
[12:00] skeptically one account is of mundane
[12:02] everyday activities that are fully
[12:04] supported by hard evidence at every step
[12:06] and the other version is wild far-out
[12:09] and comes in many conflicting versions
[12:12] none of which have any supporting
[12:14] evidence whatsoever what does a
[12:17] responsibly skeptical process support if
[12:21] you enjoy skeptoid please help out all I
[12:24] ask is to and to share an episode with
[12:27] two friends and spend two minutes
[12:29] posting your positive review on iTunes
[12:31] or the podcasting site of your choice
[12:33] and don't forget the audiobook version
[12:35] available from patio ebooks.com you're
[12:39] listening to skeptoid I'm Brian Dunning
[12:42] from skeptoid calm
[12:45] you

The podcast episode from Skeptoid, hosted by Brian Dunning, delves into the infamous Westall UFO incident that occurred on April 6, 1966, in Melbourne, Australia. The event unfolded during a sunny autumn day while students at Westall High School were participating in field sports. Initially, a few students spotted a disc-shaped object, described as gray or silver and roughly the size of two family cars, hovering silently about four football fields away. This object descended behind a row of pine trees, only to re-emerge moments later, now being pursued by five light aircraft. The object transformed into a bright streak of light, darting around as it engaged in a game of cat and mouse with the planes for approximately 20 minutes before disappearing from view. Students who ventured towards the trees discovered flattened grass, suggesting that the object had landed there temporarily.

In the aftermath, students and staff were reportedly instructed to remain silent about their experiences, allegedly intimidated by military personnel present at the scene. Over the years, the retelling of the incident has grown, with accounts becoming increasingly embellished. Dunning emphasizes the importance of approaching modern retellings with skepticism, as the original documentation from 1966 provides a more reliable foundation for understanding what transpired. He notes that while new anecdotes have surfaced from former students, they often lack corroboration with the original reports.

Geographically, Westall High School, now known as Westall Secondary College, is situated in Clayton South, a suburb of Melbourne. The surrounding area is predominantly flat, with the Grange Reserve located to the south, characterized by trees and open space. Moorabbin Airport, a busy general aviation airport, lies nearby and has been a point of speculation regarding the nature of the sighting. Some researchers have suggested that the object could have been an experimental military craft, but Dunning finds this explanation unconvincing due to the limited aircraft industry in Australia during that period. He highlights that the country's aviation capabilities were primarily focused on servicing existing aircraft rather than developing new experimental designs.

One plausible explanation for the sighting is the launch of a weather balloon from Laverton, approximately 32 kilometers away, just two and a half hours before the incident. The wind direction could have allowed the balloon to drift into the line of sight of the students at Westall High School. Dunning argues that this explanation fits the description of the object during the first half of the sighting. However, the second half, characterized by the object's rapid movements and interactions with the aircraft, remains less clear. Andrew Greenwood, a science teacher at the school, provided a detailed account of the event, describing the object as a silvery streak and noting the cat-and-mouse game played with the aircraft.

Furthermore, a letter to the editor from a former Royal Australian Air Force navigator suggested that Greenwood's description might align with a nylon target drogue used for training exercises, which could explain the behavior observed during the second half of the sighting. However, Dunning points out that there is no concrete evidence to confirm that such exercises were taking place at the time. The narrative surrounding the incident has also been clouded by claims of military cover-ups, with reports of personnel silencing witnesses. Dunning dismisses these theories, citing the extensive media coverage and the lack of any substantial evidence supporting a conspiracy.

As the years have passed, the number of claimed witnesses has inflated dramatically, with reports suggesting that up to 200 people saw the event. Dunning attributes this phenomenon to the bandwagon effect, where individuals may feel compelled to conform to the majority's narrative, leading to diluted and potentially fabricated accounts. He emphasizes the need for investigators to discern reliable testimonies from those influenced by social pressures.

In conclusion, while the Westall UFO incident remains a topic of intrigue, Dunning asserts that the most credible explanations involve a weather balloon and possibly a training exercise involving a drogue. He expresses skepticism regarding the more sensational elements of the story, such as military conspiracies and the notion of extraterrestrial involvement. Ultimately, the Westall incident stands as an unresolved mystery, yet one that lacks compelling evidence to support extraordinary claims.

The core myth surrounding the Westall UFO incident revolves around the narrative of an alien visitation that allegedly took place on April 6, 1966, at Westall High School in Melbourne, Australia. On this day, students and staff reported witnessing a mysterious object described as a disc-shaped craft, hovering silently in the sky. As the story goes, this object was pursued by several light aircraft, leading to a sensationalized interpretation of the event as a potential encounter with extraterrestrial beings. The initial reports described the craft as hovering at a distance of about four football fields away, before it descended out of sight behind a row of pine trees. Following this, the object re-emerged, now appearing as a small bright streak of light that darted around while being chased by five aircraft, engaging in what witnesses described as a game of cat and mouse.

As time passed, the narrative of the incident expanded significantly, with many retellings introducing new elements and embellishments that were not part of the original accounts. These embellishments often included claims of military cover-ups and increased witness numbers, contributing to the mythos surrounding the event.

• [00:00] "...the Westall 66 UFO Melbourne Australia 1966..."
• [02:22] "...the Westall event all we see are new anecdotes..."
• [13:38] "...the weather balloon is a likely explanation for the first half of the event..."

The chronological timeline of the Westall UFO incident begins on April 6, 1966, when students at Westall High School in Melbourne reported seeing a disc-shaped object. The initial sightings occurred during a school sports class, where several students observed the object hover silently before it descended out of view. Shortly thereafter, it reappeared, being pursued by five light aircraft. This cat-and-mouse chase reportedly lasted for about 20 minutes before the object and the aircraft vanished from sight.

In the aftermath, the principal of the school, Frank Samba, attempted to manage the situation by asking students and staff to refrain from discussing the sightings, likely due to the overwhelming media interest and the flood of inquiries from the military and UFO enthusiasts. Over the years, the narrative surrounding the Westall incident has grown considerably. For instance, reports initially indicated only a handful of witnesses, but this number has inflated to around 200 in modern retellings, an example of the bandwagon effect where individuals claim to have witnessed the event after the fact, possibly to align with peers.

As the story evolved, it incorporated various theories, including military conspiracies and potential cover-ups, which were not substantiated by the initial reports. These embellishments have contributed to a more sensationalized version of events, straying from the original accounts documented in the immediate aftermath of the incident.

• [01:00] "...20 minutes the strange object and the airplanes pursuing it..."
• [08:49] "...the principal Frank Samba gave a simpler explanation..."
• [11:07] "...the number has grown to two hundred..."

Key figures in the Westall UFO incident include students, teachers, and a few prominent individuals who contributed to the narrative over the years. Among them, Andrew Greenwood, a science teacher at Westall High School, is notable for being the only staff member known to have reported seeing the object. He provided a detailed account of his sighting, describing the craft as a silvery streak that engaged in a cat-and-mouse game with the pursuing aircraft. His perspective helped shape the early narrative surrounding the event, emphasizing the credibility of the witness accounts.

Another important figure is the unnamed former Royal Australian Air Force navigator, who wrote to a local newspaper, suggesting that Greenwood's description might accurately reflect a nylon target drogue used in pilot training exercises. This perspective offered a plausible, non-extraterrestrial explanation for part of the sightings.

Over time, the narrative has been enriched by the testimonies of former students who have revisited their experiences decades later. However, these retellings often expand the details of the event beyond what was originally reported, leading to a mix of factual and embellished accounts that complicate the understanding of what actually transpired.

• [06:24] "Andrew Greenwood was a science teacher at Westall high school..."
• [07:18] "...a former Royal Australian Air Force navigator wrote a letter to the editor..."
• [09:01] "...is this evidence of a government conspiracy..."

Several specific, verified counter-evidence and official explanations have been proposed to debunk the alien visitation narrative surrounding the Westall UFO incident. Firstly, a weather balloon launched from Laverton approximately two and a half hours before the sightings has been cited as a plausible explanation for the first part of the event. The balloon was reported to have been carried by winds towards the area of the school, potentially explaining the sighting of a hovering disc that descended behind the trees.

For the second half of the incident, a theory proposed by a former Royal Australian Air Force navigator suggested that the object could have been a nylon target drogue, used for pilot training exercises, which would fit the description of a cat-and-mouse game played with the light aircraft. However, it is noted that there is no concrete evidence that such exercises were being conducted at that time.

Additionally, the notion of a military cover-up has been challenged. The principal of Westall High School, Frank Samba, clarified that the school had requested the press to leave students alone due to the influx of inquiries, rather than as a means of concealing information. Furthermore, reports indicate that the military personnel who visited three days after the event found nothing noteworthy at the alleged landing site, suggesting that no significant evidence of an otherworldly craft was present.

• [05:40] "...a weather balloon reported the next day in the newspaper..."
• [08:02] "...this sounds to me like a spot-on explanation for the second half..."
• [09:35] "...the Air Force personnel were probably for Air Force investigators..."

The Westall UFO incident illustrates how separate, unrelated local occurrences can be woven together to create a singular conspiracy narrative. Initially reported in 1966, the sightings of the object coincided with a weather balloon launch and potential pilot training exercises, which were unrelated to any extraterrestrial activity. However, as the narrative evolved, these occurrences became integrated into the broader conspiracy theory surrounding the event.

For example, the weather balloon, which was a legitimate meteorological activity, was dismissed by UFO proponents, who sought to attribute the sightings to alien visitation instead. This dismissal allowed for the creation of a narrative that included military cover-ups and increased witness numbers—claims that were not substantiated by early reports.

Moreover, the principal’s request to limit media inquiries has often been misconstrued as evidence of a conspiracy, while his actual motivation was to protect students from the distraction of media attention. Over the years, embellishments such as the involvement of military personnel swarming the school and cordoning off the area have surfaced, despite lacking any supporting records from 1966. This demonstrates how the interplay of local events and community reactions can lead to the construction of an elaborate conspiracy narrative that strays far from the initial reality of the situation.

• [05:12] "...the balloon could likely have disappeared from view..."
• [09:01] "...is this evidence of a government conspiracy..."
• [10:48] "...the story certainly has no holes in it..."

[00:00] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:02] Dunning from skeptoid comm the West ole
[00:05] 66 UFO Melbourne Australia 1966 a sunny
[00:12] breezy day in autumn April 6th to be
[00:14] exact
[00:15] field-sports were underway for a morning
[00:17] class at Westall high school a few
[00:19] students saw it first and then a few
[00:22] more they described it as a disc gray or
[00:25] silver about the size of two family cars
[00:27] and about four football fields away it
[00:30] hovered silently and then descended out
[00:33] of view behind a row of pine trees to
[00:35] the south of the school a few minutes
[00:37] later it emerged only now it was being
[00:39] pursued by a squadron of five light
[00:42] aircraft and now its movement was faster
[00:45] the object now described as a small
[00:47] bright streak of light darted about with
[00:50] the aircraft playing a game of cat and
[00:52] mouse after 20 minutes the strange
[00:55] object and the airplanes pursuing it
[00:57] went out of view as soon as they had the
[01:00] chance
[01:00] some students scrambled toward the trees
[01:02] and found the grass flattened where the
[01:05] object had undoubtedly landed while it
[01:07] was out of view back at the school
[01:09] students and staff were instructed not
[01:12] to talk about what they'd seen
[01:15] intimidated by the sight of military
[01:17] personnel the students have allegedly
[01:19] remained silent ever since but as we
[01:23] almost always see with urban legends the
[01:26] more time passes the larger the story
[01:28] grows 44 years after the event
[01:32] retellings have expanded significantly
[01:34] compared to what was documented at the
[01:37] time and this should always give us
[01:39] cause to approach modern revision Ang's
[01:41] with skepticism new evidence coming to
[01:44] light is one thing but with the Westall
[01:47] event all we see are new anecdotes a few
[01:50] adults who were students at the time and
[01:52] UFO proponents who have interviewed
[01:54] former students are now reporting
[01:57] greatly expanded versions of what
[01:59] happened does that make them wrong of
[02:01] course not but if we want to determine
[02:04] the most likely account of what really
[02:06] happened we go to the original sources
[02:09] we go to the original documentation
[02:12] of what the
[02:12] witnesses reported 44 years ago and we
[02:15] take the contradictory revisions with a
[02:18] large grain of salt let's start by
[02:22] having a look at the area Westall high
[02:24] school now called Westall Secondary
[02:26] College is in a suburb of Melbourne
[02:28] Australia called Clayton South the land
[02:32] all about Westall is quite low and flat
[02:34] and the coast is just ten kilometres
[02:36] southwest just to the south of the
[02:39] school is a natural open space called
[02:41] The Grange reserve mostly trees and
[02:43] scrub most of the grange is still open
[02:46] space and remains today including the
[02:48] row of trees visible from the school
[02:50] behind which the object was seen to
[02:52] descend beyond the Grange about four and
[02:55] a half kilometers is Moorabbin airport
[02:57] which was then and still is a small but
[03:00] very busy general aviation airport by
[03:03] the number of takeoffs it is in fact the
[03:05] third busiest airport in the southern
[03:07] hemisphere its proximity to the school
[03:11] has contributed to both UFO researchers
[03:13] and skeptics suggesting the sighting may
[03:16] have been of an experimental military
[03:18] craft however I don't find this
[03:21] explanation very convincing at all
[03:23] Australia didn't really have much of an
[03:25] aircraft industry in 1966 they've been
[03:29] quite busy during World War two
[03:30] but by the 1960s it was scaled way back
[03:33] and most of Australia's aircraft
[03:35] industry was providing service and
[03:37] support to existing planes there were a
[03:39] few exceptions the Commonwealth Aircraft
[03:42] Corporation was active at the time but
[03:44] they did no design work they merely
[03:46] constructed models in use by the
[03:48] Australians that had been designed
[03:50] overseas at the time of Westall they
[03:52] were busy producing the Dassault Mirage
[03:54] 3 fighter and were just ramping up for
[03:57] production on the maquis MB 326 trainer
[04:00] de Havilland Australia had developed two
[04:03] prototype jet trainers the p17 in the f2
[04:07] but both of those projects were canceled
[04:09] in 1965 when the company shifted its
[04:12] focus to production of parts for
[04:14] Commonwealth in B 326 the only other
[04:17] aircraft manufacturers in Australia were
[04:19] tiny and built only small civilian or
[04:22] agricultural planes in 1966
[04:26] none of these companies had anything
[04:28] like the skunkworks of American aircraft
[04:31] companies that we usually think of when
[04:33] we talk about strange experimental craft
[04:35] of course other countries did not only
[04:39] the Americans the Canadians and the
[04:41] British but also France the Soviet Union
[04:44] and others certainly any of them might
[04:47] have chosen to test advanced designs in
[04:49] Australia the problem with this
[04:51] hypothesis is that all such designs have
[04:54] long been Declassified and are now well
[04:56] known and none of them would be a
[04:58] serviceable match for the Westall
[05:00] reports nobody had anything that hovered
[05:03] silently darted about playing cat and
[05:05] mouse or flattened grass when it landed
[05:07] the closest thing I can find would be
[05:10] the flying saucer shaped Avro car which
[05:13] was desperately unsuccessful and had
[05:15] been cancelled five years before Westall
[05:17] if we introduced the suggestion that
[05:20] maybe an improved version lived on in
[05:22] secret and was tested in the middle of
[05:24] Melbourne in broad daylight we'd be on
[05:27] very thin ice there's no evidence for
[05:29] that and it would remain unknown to
[05:32] every aviation historian and author
[05:35] there was one strange craft launched
[05:38] that day however a weather balloon
[05:40] reported the next day in the newspaper
[05:42] the age as a possible explanation for
[05:44] the event it was launched from Laverton
[05:47] two and a half hours before the sighting
[05:49] 32 kilometres west northwest of Westall
[05:52] the Aged reported that the wind was
[05:54] blowing from the west and if it
[05:56] continued southeast near Clayton South
[05:59] the balloon could likely have
[06:01] disappeared from view behind the row of
[06:03] trees very close to 11:00 a.m. when the
[06:06] sighting happened despite being
[06:08] dismissed by the UFO promoters I find
[06:11] this balloon event to be a very
[06:12] plausible candidate for the first half
[06:15] of the sighting when a silently hovering
[06:17] disc
[06:18] descended behind the trees the second
[06:21] half of the event had a much different
[06:24] character
[06:24] Andrew Greenwood was a science teacher
[06:27] at Westall high school and is the only
[06:28] staff member known to have reported
[06:31] seeing the object at the time he gave a
[06:33] detailed account to the newspapers
[06:36] Greenwood first saw the object when it
[06:38] rose into view from beyond the pine
[06:40] at the Grange he described it as a
[06:42] silvery streak like a thin beam of light
[06:45] about half the length of a light
[06:47] aircraft at first it appeared with only
[06:50] a single aircraft but was eventually
[06:51] joined by five he described a
[06:54] cat-and-mouse game that the aircraft
[06:56] played with the object a game which
[06:59] lasted a full 20 minutes the object
[07:02] moved from side to side and its size
[07:04] appeared to fluctuate slightly by the
[07:07] end of morning recess Greenwood said he
[07:09] turned away and when he looked again the
[07:11] object and the five airplanes had gone
[07:15] one man who identified himself only as a
[07:18] former Royal Australian Air Force
[07:20] navigator wrote a letter to the editor
[07:22] in the April 28th denden on journal in
[07:25] which he said that green woods report
[07:27] was a reasonably accurate description of
[07:30] a nylon target drogue like a windsock
[07:33] towed by one plane for the others to
[07:35] chase and known to be in use by the
[07:38] local RAAF at the time a cat-and-mouse
[07:41] game would be a fairly apt description
[07:44] of what happens when pilots undergoing
[07:46] training try to follow the drogue for an
[07:49] explanation of why no pilots reported
[07:51] anything strange
[07:52] he offered why should they they were
[07:55] probably carrying out a normal exercise
[07:57] and wouldn't dream that anyone could
[07:59] take a drogue for a flying saucer
[08:02] although this sounds to me like a
[08:04] spot-on explanation for the second half
[08:07] of the sighting is reported in 1966
[08:10] there's no evidence that anyone was
[08:12] conducting any drogue exercises there at
[08:14] the time there's no evidence that they
[08:16] didn't but we can't do any better than
[08:18] list this as one possibility talk of
[08:23] military records leads us to the alleged
[08:25] secrecy that was imposed following the
[08:27] event did military personnel show up and
[08:31] silence everyone to cover up the event
[08:33] it does not seem likely
[08:35] since newspapers widely reported the
[08:38] story and everyone who's ever been
[08:40] interviewed about it has spoken quite
[08:41] freely there is nothing about this story
[08:44] consistent with any kind of cover-up
[08:46] having taken place on April 14th the
[08:49] Dandenong Journal reported that the
[08:51] school would not permit any further
[08:53] interview
[08:54] with students and that students and
[08:56] staff at the school had been asked not
[08:58] to talk to reporters was this evidence
[09:01] of a government conspiracy the principal
[09:04] Frank Samba gave a simpler explanation
[09:07] to the Dandenong Journal published on
[09:08] may 5th 1966 he said the flood of
[09:12] callers and phone calls from the
[09:14] airforce down to the flying saucer
[09:16] Association interrupted the children's
[09:19] studies given this real-world concern of
[09:22] the school
[09:23] it does seem reasonable that he would
[09:25] have asked the press to leave the
[09:26] students alone and done what he could to
[09:28] enforce it at the front desk
[09:30] from every single 1966 account I've read
[09:34] this is the full extent of what's now
[09:37] being described as a cover-up or a
[09:39] conspiracy the Air Force personnel Sam
[09:44] bleeb arow furred - were probably for
[09:47] Air Force investigators who showed up on
[09:49] April 9th three days after the event to
[09:52] look at what was said to be the landing
[09:54] site a number of enthusiasts from
[09:57] various UFO groups accompanied them but
[10:00] apparently nothing interesting was found
[10:02] because nothing was documented from this
[10:04] visit the newspaper interviewed one
[10:07] student who said she thought the tall
[10:09] grass looked merely like the wind had
[10:11] flattened it indeed the flattened
[10:14] circles were apparently so vague that
[10:16] witnesses couldn't agree whether it was
[10:18] one or three some reports say the Air
[10:21] Force men burned the area to hide the
[10:24] evidence but according to the farmer who
[10:26] owned the land he burned it himself to
[10:29] stop people from trampling onto his
[10:31] property
[10:32] today's expanded accounts often include
[10:35] much deeper military involvement such as
[10:37] police and military swarming around the
[10:40] school and cordoning off the landing
[10:43] site and the circles appearing to be
[10:45] scorched but I didn't find a single
[10:48] record from 1966 to substantiate this
[10:54] something else that's grown over the
[10:56] years has been the number of witnesses
[10:57] at the school the Dandenong Journal
[11:00] reported at the time that only one
[11:02] teacher and several students saw the
[11:04] object but by now that number has grown
[11:07] to two
[11:07] hundred this number is probably
[11:09] artificially inflated by what behavioral
[11:12] psychologists call the bandwagon effect
[11:14] when all of your friends say they saw
[11:17] something you tend to say you saw it too
[11:19] whether you really did or not simply
[11:22] because you don't want to be left out or
[11:23] considered inferior most of the
[11:26] witnesses were high school students and
[11:28] that's an age when we tend to be highly
[11:30] conscious of our image and social
[11:32] conformity nobody wants to be the one
[11:34] who couldn't see the object some of the
[11:37] students most likely did see something
[11:39] but it's fairly certain that at least
[11:41] some of the witnesses simply went along
[11:44] with the crowd in accordance with the
[11:46] bandwagon effect this introduces a
[11:50] serious problem the descriptions of what
[11:52] was actually seen have now become
[11:54] diluted with made-up descriptions by an
[11:57] unknown number of students who didn't
[11:59] see anything and there's no way to know
[12:02] which is which police investigators are
[12:05] keenly aware of this potential
[12:07] complication and often have to account
[12:09] for it in practice this usually means
[12:12] finding commonalities among the accounts
[12:15] of witnesses who were in the best
[12:16] positions and discounting aberrant
[12:19] reports usually from those who are not
[12:21] in as good a position and especially
[12:23] from those who come forward later after
[12:26] the general facts have become publicly
[12:28] known employing this strategy we can
[12:32] bring what probably happened at Westall
[12:34] into better focus the commonalities of
[12:37] the reports from the witnesses in the
[12:39] best position all state that the craft
[12:41] was a great distance away beyond the
[12:44] trees this is probably what happened
[12:47] aberrant reports from a few students
[12:50] such as those who report that it flew
[12:52] over the school or that it landed in the
[12:54] school yard or the one girl who said she
[12:56] touched the craft as it lifted off are
[12:58] much less reliable and probably safely
[13:02] discarded such reports are sensational
[13:05] and most likely to make headlines but to
[13:08] the investigator who knows his business
[13:09] there is good reason to dismiss them we
[13:13] can say with pretty good certainty that
[13:14] whatever the object was it was too far
[13:17] away to easily judge its actual size the
[13:21] in Decatur we have of scale is of its
[13:23] second appearance after it rose from
[13:25] behind the trees
[13:26] when Andrew Greenwood reported it played
[13:28] cat-and-mouse with the light aircraft
[13:30] small and thin and shorter than a light
[13:33] aircraft so what can we conclude about
[13:38] the Westall UFO not very much the
[13:42] weather balloon is a likely explanation
[13:43] for the first half of the event and the
[13:46] drogue is at least one very reasonable
[13:48] possibility for the second half there's
[13:51] good reason to doubt that many of the
[13:53] story elements like the military
[13:55] conspiracy and the craft having landed
[13:57] ever happened at all the story certainly
[14:01] has no holes in it that can only be
[14:02] filled with extraterrestrial aliens and
[14:04] indeed no credible reason to suggest
[14:07] anything unusual I don't know does not
[14:11] mean I do know and it was a spaceship so
[14:14] for now the Westall 66 UFO remains one
[14:18] of many question marks in the books just
[14:21] not a very bold or especially intriguing
[14:24] one you're listening to skeptoid I'm
[14:27] Brian Dunning from skeptoid comm

The Pentagon's UFO Hunt
In December 2017, a groundbreaking article by the New York Times revealed the existence of the Pentagon's Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which allocated $22 million from 2007 to 2012 to investigate unidentified flying objects (UFOs). This revelation sparked widespread public interest, as videos surfaced showing unexplainable thermal images of UFOs captured by U.S. fighter planes. Initially, many interpreted this as a government acknowledgment of potential alien visitation. However, subsequent analysis has led to a more skeptical view of the program's true nature.

The AATIP was initiated by Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, with backing from Senators Daniel Inouye and Ted Stevens, motivated by concerns that UFOs might pose a national security threat, echoing the rationale behind earlier initiatives like Project Blue Book in the 1950s and 1960s. The bulk of the funding was directed to Robert Bigelow, a billionaire with interests in both hospitality and aerospace, who is also known for his involvement with Skinwalker Ranch, a site infamous for paranormal activity. Bigelow's firm, Bigelow Aerospace, was tasked with the program, which was managed by Luis Elizondo, a figure whose background remains shrouded in mystery.

Bigelow's history includes the establishment of the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDSci), which focused on paranormal phenomena, including cattle mutilations and UFO sightings. He has publicly expressed strong beliefs in extraterrestrial life, claiming significant personal investment in the field. His connections with Reid, as a major donor and friend, raise questions about the motivations behind the funding and the potential for conflicts of interest.

Critics have pointed out that the personnel involved in AATIP often overlap with those from NIDSci, suggesting a continuity of belief in UFOs and paranormal phenomena. Hal Puthoff, a notable figure associated with both AATIP and NIDSci, has been criticized for his pseudoscientific proposals regarding metaphysical concepts. Following AATIP's conclusion, many involved transitioned to Tom DeLonge's To the Stars Academy (TTSA), which aims to explore and validate claims of alien presence and related phenomena.

DeLonge's organization has attracted funding from a community of UFO enthusiasts, and he argues that mainstream science often suppresses unconventional ideas. This sentiment resonates with many in the UFO community, who frequently dismiss established scientific findings as biased. The interconnections between these groups suggest a cohesive network of individuals dedicated to promoting the idea of extraterrestrial life.

Despite the compelling narratives and videos presented by AATIP and TTSA, the evidence supporting claims of alien visitation remains tenuous. The most notable video, depicting a supposed UFO, has been explained as an optical illusion resulting from the infrared camera's perspective. Other videos, including one of a balloon mistaken for a UFO, further illustrate the lack of rigorous investigation and the tendency to sensationalize findings without substantial evidence.

Ultimately, while the AATIP program did not substantiate claims of government contact with extraterrestrial beings, it highlighted the susceptibility of both the public and lawmakers to sensationalism and rhetoric from passionate advocates of UFO phenomena. The episode serves as a reminder of the importance of critical thinking and skepticism in evaluating extraordinary claims.

The core myth or narrative surrounding alien visitation that is promoted in the transcript originates from the Pentagon's Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which was revealed in a December 2017 article by the New York Times. This program was reported to have spent $22 million from 2007 to 2012 investigating unidentified flying objects (UFOs), which were perceived by many as potential evidence of alien contact.

Initially, the release of videos showing thermal images of maneuvering UFOs taken by US fighter planes sparked widespread public fascination and speculation about government acknowledgment of extraterrestrial life. This was fueled by the apparent endorsement of actual alien visitation by government officials, leading many to embrace the idea that the government was affirming the existence of unidentified aerial phenomena.

However, the narrative surrounding AATIP has evolved over time, particularly as it was revealed that the program was less about investigating a genuine phenomenon and more about public relations efforts from individuals who were already lifelong believers in UFOs. This led to a more nuanced understanding of the events, where the sensationalism surrounding the idea of alien visitation was increasingly recognized as a means of garnering public interest rather than reflecting a scientific investigation.

• [00:09] "In December 2017, the New York Times ran a story that shocked readers worldwide."
• [01:06] "...this whole program was not so much an official investigation of a genuine phenomenon..."
• [02:07] "...it’s understandable how the story captured the attention of news agencies and the public worldwide."

The chronological timeline of the narrative regarding alien visitation and the AATIP program can be outlined as follows:

• 2007-2012: The AATIP program was funded and operational, with a budget of $22 million aimed at investigating UFOs, primarily under the direction of Harry Reid, a senator from Nevada.
• December 2017: The New York Times published an article revealing the existence of AATIP, releasing videos that allegedly showed unexplainable UFOs taken by US fighter jets.
• 2018 onward: The narrative began to shift as public discourse evolved, with cooler heads analyzing the evidence and recognizing the dubious claims made by proponents of the program. Critics began to view AATIP not as a legitimate investigation but as a public relations effort by individuals already inclined to believe in UFOs.

As time progressed, the narrative expanded to include the roles of individuals such as Robert Bigelow, who had connections to both AATIP and various UFO-related endeavors. This led to the emergence of other organizations, like Tom DeLonge’s To the Stars Academy, which continued to promote the idea of an alien presence on Earth. The continued intermingling of UFOs with paranormal phenomena further complicated the narrative.

• [01:15] "What was reported by the New York Times was that the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program..."
• [01:48] "The funding was reported to be $22 million over 5 years..."
• [07:12] "Each program begins approximately where its predecessor left off."

The transcript outlines several key figures integral to the narrative of alien visitation and the AATIP program:

• Harry Reid: The former senator from Nevada was a significant advocate for the AATIP program, expressing concern that UFOs could represent a national security threat. His influence was pivotal in securing funding for the program.
• Robert Bigelow: A billionaire hotel and space entrepreneur, Bigelow was closely tied to AATIP as the primary recipient of its funding. Known for his interests in the paranormal and UFOs, he previously owned Skinwalker Ranch, a site associated with numerous paranormal claims.
• Luis Elizondo: The former director of AATIP, Elizondo's background in intelligence was touted as a credible foundation for the program's investigations. However, his credentials and the details of his employment have been called into question, leading to speculation about his true role.
• Tom DeLonge: A former rock musician who founded the To the Stars Academy (TTSA), he aimed to prove the existence of extraterrestrial life and has raised considerable funding through public interest in UFOs.
• Colm Kelleher: The former head of Bigelow’s National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDSci), Kelleher also held a deputy administrator position for AATIP and is now involved with TTSA.

These figures have collectively shaped the narrative surrounding UFOs and the perception of alien visitation, often blurring the lines between scientific inquiry and belief in the paranormal.

• [01:19] "...the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, or AATIP, was the brainchild of Harry Reid..."
• [02:05] "...the project was run at the Pentagon by a mysterious man named Luis Elizondo."
• [02:29] "Bigelow described his position on alien visitation to the TV news program 60 Minutes."

Several specific counter-evidence and official explanations are provided in the transcript to debunk the narrative of alien visitation:

• The videos released by AATIP: While these videos were initially portrayed as evidence of UFOs, further analysis revealed that the apparent UFOs were likely the result of optical illusions caused by the technology used to capture the footage. For example, the stingray-shaped craft seen in one video was explained as a common shape produced by sharp points of heat appearing through the glare filter of the FLIR infrared camera.
• The amateur video of a metallic foil balloon: Another video presented as evidence was ultimately identified as a party balloon shaped like the number one, highlighting the lack of rigor in the investigation by those promoting these videos.
• Comments by experts: Astronomer Seth Shostak from the SETI Institute pointed out that individuals involved with AATIP were not impartial investigators, as they were already predisposed to believe in the phenomena they were studying. This bias undermines the credibility of their findings.

These examples illustrate that the claims of alien visitation were not supported by empirical evidence and were instead based on misinterpretations of readily explainable phenomena.

• [10:12] "...the most dramatic of these videos...appears to show a stingray-shaped craft..."
• [11:01] "...what's happening is that the stingray shape...is how any sharp point of heat appears through the glare filter..."
• [12:40] "...it was revealed to have been amateur video shot of a metallic foil party balloon..."

The construction of a singular conspiracy narrative from separate, unrelated local occurrences is evident in the way the AATIP program and its associated figures are interconnected:

• Skinwalker Ranch: This location, purchased by Robert Bigelow, became a focal point for numerous paranormal claims, including cattle mutilations and alleged alien encounters. Bigelow's investment in the ranch and subsequent scientific investigations there set the stage for linking these phenomena to broader claims of alien visitation.
• Intermingling of UFOs and paranormal phenomena: The narrative surrounding AATIP not only focused on UFO sightings but also incorporated other paranormal claims, such as telepathy and the afterlife. These were often promoted by figures like Tom DeLonge, who suggested that communications with aliens could occur through thought frequencies.
• Funding and personal connections: The connection between Bigelow and Senator Reid, along with campaign donations and friendships, created a backdrop of suspicion regarding the motivations behind the funding of AATIP. This further fueled the conspiracy narrative that government resources were being used to support personal beliefs in the paranormal.

As a result, these disparate events and claims became woven into a cohesive narrative that suggested a government cover-up of alien visitation, despite the lack of concrete evidence to substantiate such claims.

• [02:40] "Bigelow purchased the ranch in 1996 after learning stories of paranormal activities said to happen there."
• [07:06] "...they are clearly a single spiritual thread followed by a core of believers."
• [07:30] "...AATIP was little more than Bigelow's successful plan to shift the funding of his personal hobby..."

[00:00] You're listening to Skeptoid. I'm Brian
[00:02] Dunning from skeptoid.com.
[00:05] The Pentagon's UFO hunt.
[00:09] In December 2017, the New York Times ran
[00:12] a story that shocked readers worldwide.
[00:15] It was the revelation of a Pentagon
[00:18] program called the Advanced Aviation
[00:20] Threat Identification Program, which
[00:23] spent $22 million
[00:26] from 2007 to 2012 investigating UFOs.
[00:31] Videos were released showing apparently
[00:33] unexplainable thermal images of
[00:35] maneuvering UFOs taken from US fighter
[00:38] planes. The internet went mad as people
[00:41] embraced what appeared to be government
[00:44] endorsement of actual alien visitation.
[00:47] But then, cooler heads had a chance to
[00:50] look at the reports, and we now view the
[00:53] episode quite differently. For it turns
[00:56] out that this whole program was not so
[00:58] much an official investigation of a
[01:00] genuine phenomenon, so much as it was a
[01:03] singularly successful public relations
[01:06] coup by a group of lifelong UFO
[01:09] believers and promoters of alien
[01:11] visitation and the paranormal.
[01:15] What was reported by the New York Times
[01:17] was that the Advanced Aviation Threat
[01:19] Identification Program, or AATIP,
[01:22] sometimes given as the Advanced
[01:24] Aerospace Threat Identification Program,
[01:27] was the brainchild of Harry Reid, then a
[01:30] senator from Nevada, with support from
[01:32] senators Daniel Inouye and Ted Stevens,
[01:35] due to their shared concern that UFOs
[01:38] may represent a national security
[01:40] threat. The same reason Project Blue
[01:42] Book ran in the 1950s and '60s and other
[01:45] similar programs since. The funding was
[01:48] reported to be $22 million over 5 years,
[01:51] with most of it going to Robert Bigelow,
[01:54] a Nevada hotel billionaire and space
[01:57] entrepreneur. The project was run at the
[01:59] Pentagon by a mysterious man named Luis
[02:02] Elizondo. That's all well and good,
[02:05] seems legitimate enough, and bolstered
[02:07] by the very impressive UFO videos, it's
[02:10] understandable how the story captured
[02:12] the attention of news agencies and the
[02:15] public worldwide.
[02:18] But what they probably didn't know was
[02:21] the dubious history of the cast of
[02:24] characters behind AATIP. The central
[02:27] figure was Bigelow, known to NASA for
[02:29] Bigelow Aerospace, but known to the UFO
[02:33] and paranormal communities for
[02:35] Skinwalker Ranch. It's a 480-acre
[02:38] property in Utah, which Bigelow
[02:40] purchased in 1996
[02:43] after learning stories of paranormal
[02:45] activities said to happen there. Cattle
[02:48] mutilations that he believed were the
[02:50] result of alien experimentation, UFO
[02:53] sightings, ghost lights, and
[02:55] transdimensional and shapeshifting
[02:57] beings. Bigelow had formed a group he
[03:00] called the National Institute for
[03:02] Discovery Science, or NIDSci, a group of
[03:06] parapsychologists and alternative
[03:08] scientists to study telepathy and
[03:11] related phenomena. He moved them all
[03:13] onto Skinwalker Ranch.
[03:17] Bigelow described his position on alien
[03:19] visitation to the TV news program 60
[03:22] Minutes. Do you believe in aliens? I'm
[03:25] absolutely convinced. That's all there
[03:26] is to it. Do you also believe that UFOs
[03:29] have come to Earth? There has been and
[03:31] is an existing presence, an ET presence.
[03:34] And I spent millions and millions. I
[03:35] probably spent more as an individual
[03:38] than anybody else in the United States
[03:39] has ever spent on this subject. Do you
[03:42] imagine that in our space travels we
[03:44] will encounter other forms of
[03:47] intelligent life? You don't have to go
[03:49] anywhere.
[03:50] You can find it here.
[03:51] Yeah. According to news site Politico's
[03:54] analysis of campaign donation records,
[03:56] Bigelow was a major donor to Harry Reid,
[03:59] his Nevada senator. The two were
[04:01] friends. It was at Bigelow's urging that
[04:04] Reid approached Stevens and Inouye and
[04:07] secured the $22 million,
[04:09] which was then given to Bigelow. It was
[04:12] an odd transaction. First, $22 million
[04:15] over 5 years, about 360,000 per month,
[04:19] accomplishes very little on a
[04:21] governmental scale. Regardless, it's a
[04:24] bit smelly that it was given to a major
[04:27] donor and friend. How Bigelow spent it
[04:30] has not been made public, but what has
[04:33] been released is that many of the people
[04:35] Bigelow employed at NIDSci are the same
[04:38] ones listed as senior researchers for
[04:41] AATIP, such as engineer and
[04:43] parapsychologist Hal Puthoff, one of the
[04:46] people behind Project Stargate, the
[04:49] CIA's failed effort in the 1970s to
[04:52] employ psychic powers for intelligence
[04:55] purposes. Puthoff wrote the proposal to
[04:57] fund AATIP and used his time there to
[05:00] write 38 papers about his ideas for
[05:04] metaphysical space-time drive systems
[05:07] for spaceships, described by physicists
[05:10] as pure pseudoscience.
[05:14] And now that the AATIP program has
[05:16] ended, many of these same people are
[05:19] still working together, though now under
[05:21] former rock musician Tom DeLonge, who in
[05:25] 2015 founded something he calls the To
[05:28] the Stars Academy, TTSA.
[05:31] It's crowdfunded by selling corporate
[05:33] shares, and to date, around 3,000
[05:36] ufologists, conspiracy theorists, and
[05:39] other enthusiasts have sent money to
[05:41] support TTSA's mission of proving an
[05:45] alien presence on Earth and the reality
[05:48] of phenomena such as telepathy.
[05:50] DeLonge writes that this is necessary
[05:52] because the public interest in the outer
[05:55] edges of science and the understanding
[05:57] of phenomena has always been suffocated
[06:00] by mainstream ideology and bureaucratic
[06:03] constraint.
[06:04] It's a theme familiar to Skeptoid
[06:07] listeners. Dismissing disliked science
[06:10] findings as mainstream ideology is a
[06:13] common gambit of the pseudoscientist.
[06:18] Biologist Colm Kelleher, who was the
[06:20] head of NIDSci for many years, studied
[06:23] cattle mutilations and other paranormal
[06:25] phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch until its
[06:28] closure in 2004.
[06:30] Then, he was the deputy administrator
[06:32] for AATIP from 2008 to 2011, and is now
[06:36] listed as the biotech consultant for
[06:39] TTSA.
[06:40] Running one's eye down the lists of
[06:42] personnel employed by these programs,
[06:45] one could get the impression that this
[06:47] is a single ongoing enterprise of
[06:49] hardcore believers in alien visitation,
[06:53] moving as a group wherever the funding
[06:55] leads them. Legally, there are no
[06:58] evident corporate connections between
[07:00] Bigelow's NIDSci, Reid's AATIP, and
[07:03] DeLonge's TTSA. But in reality, they are
[07:06] clearly a single spiritual thread
[07:09] followed by a core of believers. Each
[07:12] program begins approximately where its
[07:14] predecessor left off. Cynical observers
[07:18] might well conclude that AATIP was
[07:20] little more than Bigelow's successful
[07:23] plan to shift the funding of his
[07:25] personal hobby, studying the paranormal,
[07:28] from his own pockets to that of the
[07:30] taxpayers.
[07:33] Even Leslie Kean, the principal reporter
[07:36] behind the New York Times story, has
[07:38] been a part of this ongoing enterprise
[07:40] for some time, having written articles
[07:42] promoting TTSA since at least October
[07:45] 2017.
[07:47] She is also a lifelong promoter of UFOs
[07:49] and the paranormal, having written books
[07:52] on both, with such titles as UFOs:
[07:55] Generals, Pilots, and Government
[07:57] Officials Go on the Record, and
[07:59] Surviving Death: A Journalist
[08:02] Investigates Evidence for an Afterlife.
[08:06] The intermingling of UFOs and aliens
[08:09] with paranormal phenomena like telepathy
[08:12] and the afterlife has been a common
[08:14] theme throughout these groups.
[08:16] Telepathy, they believe, is how the
[08:18] visiting aliens communicate with us.
[08:20] DeLonge made this convoluted statement
[08:23] to Paper Magazine in 2015.
[08:27] A person that was gathering all that
[08:29] footage for the congressional hearing
[08:31] was telling me that the big belief,
[08:33] which I had corroborated by a university
[08:35] professor that was in the know, by the
[08:37] way, that the communication of this
[08:39] particular phenomenon is the frequency
[08:42] of thought.
[08:44] So, part of communicating and making
[08:46] contact is shutting your mind down and
[08:49] being able to project your thoughts.
[08:52] Elizondo is the most cryptic of these
[08:55] personalities. His biography from AATIP
[08:59] listed roles in intelligence at
[09:01] virtually every national security agency
[09:03] you can think of.
[09:05] Wired magazine submitted Freedom of
[09:07] Information Act requests for information
[09:09] about Elizondo's employment at the
[09:11] Pentagon, but they turned up no records
[09:14] at all. Nor does any Luis Elizondo
[09:17] appear in an online database of federal
[09:19] employees for that period of time.
[09:22] A Pentagon spokesperson did confirm only
[09:26] that he had worked for the Department of
[09:28] Defense at some point.
[09:30] So, it's all very strange. Elizondo's
[09:32] position today is as Tom DeLonge's
[09:35] personal bodyguard at TTSA, though with
[09:38] the grandiloquent title of Director of
[09:41] Global Security.
[09:44] But, of course, it's not the people or
[09:47] their backgrounds or beliefs that
[09:49] determine the validity of these claims
[09:51] of alien visitation, but rather the
[09:53] evidence itself. None of the programs
[09:56] discussed have presented any empirical
[09:59] evidence, but both AATIP and TTSA have
[10:03] offered the videos taken from US fighter
[10:05] jets.
[10:06] These videos were passed along to the
[10:08] media with the press releases in
[10:10] December 2017.
[10:12] So, let's take a look at them.
[10:16] The most dramatic of these videos,
[10:18] filmed in 2004 by an FA-18F fighter
[10:22] plane, appears to show a stingray-shaped
[10:25] craft banking above some clouds, even
[10:28] making a few turns.
[10:29] It's enough to impress almost anyone,
[10:32] except, of course, military pilots
[10:35] familiar with the characteristics of the
[10:37] FLIR infrared camera.
[10:40] It's a bit difficult to explain in an
[10:42] audio program, but for an excellent
[10:44] breakdown of exactly what you're seeing
[10:46] and why it looks like a stingray-shaped
[10:49] craft turning above some clouds, see the
[10:52] article on the Metabunk website, and
[10:54] you'll find a link to it on the online
[10:55] transcript for this episode at
[10:57] skeptoid.com.
[10:59] In short, what's happening is that the
[11:01] stingray shape, two roundish wings with
[11:04] a short tail, is how any sharp point of
[11:07] heat appears through the glare filter of
[11:10] the FLIR pod mounted to the fighter
[11:12] plane.
[11:13] Other confirming examples of this shape
[11:15] are widely available online.
[11:17] When the craft appears to rotate in the
[11:20] video, these movements correspond to the
[11:22] rotation of the gimbal on which the FLIR
[11:25] turns in response to the airplane's
[11:27] maneuvers.
[11:28] The FLIR camera was looking off to the
[11:31] side, not straight ahead, and the
[11:33] fighter plane was moving past the
[11:35] clouds, while the distant point of heat
[11:37] remained stationary, most likely a
[11:40] commercial jet headed away from the
[11:42] fighter, about 15 miles away, according
[11:44] to reconstructions.
[11:46] The video was simply an effective
[11:48] combination of two commonplace optical
[11:52] illusions.
[11:54] If these videos were so easily
[11:56] explained, why then did Elizondo and
[11:59] TTSA present them as evidence of alien
[12:02] visitation?
[12:04] The reason is simply that these people
[12:05] are not very good investigators, and
[12:08] certainly not impartial ones.
[12:10] Astronomer Seth Shostak of the SETI
[12:13] Institute explained to Business Insider
[12:16] how Bigelow and DeLonge's people were
[12:18] not the best to analyze these videos.
[12:22] If you were investigating some
[12:23] phenomenon that you're not sure whether
[12:25] it's real or not, but it would be
[12:26] extraordinarily important if it were
[12:28] real, you would want somebody impartial,
[12:31] I would think.
[12:32] Giving this case to somebody who already
[12:35] knows what the answer is is maybe not
[12:37] terribly objective.
[12:40] Putting an exclamation point on this was
[12:43] another video shown by Tom DeLonge at a
[12:45] TTSA event. Its explanation was even
[12:48] simpler. It was revealed to have been
[12:50] amateur video shot of a metallic foil
[12:53] party balloon in the shape of a number
[12:55] one, such as you might buy along with a
[12:58] number two for someone's 21st birthday
[13:00] party.
[13:01] This is the investigative acumen paid
[13:04] for by those who have bought shares in
[13:07] the company.
[13:09] So, did the Pentagon's $22 million
[13:13] Advanced Aviation Threat Identification
[13:15] Program prove that the US government is
[13:18] in contact with alien visitors?
[13:21] No,
[13:22] but it did prove that US senators are
[13:24] just as susceptible as news reporters
[13:27] and the general public to being
[13:29] persuaded by rhetoric and
[13:31] pseudo-scientific sensationalism
[13:34] when expertly wielded by passionate true
[13:37] believers.
[13:42] If you enjoyed this episode, you will
[13:44] really enjoy my latest book,
[13:46] Conspiracies Declassified, published by
[13:49] Simon and Schuster. We point the
[13:51] skeptical eye at 50 of the most popular
[13:54] conspiracy theories in pop culture.
[13:57] The book comes out the first week of
[13:58] June, but bookstores decide what books
[14:01] to buy based on pre-order numbers. So,
[14:05] if you want to make sure that everyone
[14:06] who walks into a Barnes & Noble sees a
[14:09] giant stack of Skeptoidy goodness right
[14:12] in front of their face when they walk
[14:13] in, you can help make it happen by
[14:16] placing an online pre-order for the book
[14:19] at either amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.
[14:22] Search for Conspiracies Declassified by
[14:26] Brian Dunning. You will help make the
[14:29] world a less credulous place.
[14:34] You're listening to Skeptoid, a
[14:36] listener-supported program. I'm Brian
[14:38] Dunning from skeptoid.com.

Cattle Mutilations: An Analysis of the Phenomenon

The discussion begins with a vivid narrative set on a Texas cattle ranch, where a cow named Bessie is abducted by an alien craft, leading to her gruesome mutilation. This scenario, while dramatic, encapsulates the essence of the cattle mutilation phenomenon, which has become a staple of modern paranormal lore. The phenomenon involves the discovery of cattle remains that appear to have been mutilated in a precise and surgical manner, often with missing body parts such as ears, eyes, and internal organs. Witnesses frequently report that these mutilations occur under mysterious circumstances, with no signs of struggle or scavenging present at the scene.

The transcript highlights the common characteristics of these mutilations: the animals are typically found in good health prior to their deaths, and the mutilations appear to be post-mortem. The absence of blood and the clean edges of the wounds contribute to the belief that some form of foul play is involved, often attributed to extraterrestrial beings conducting experiments.

Historically, belief in alien involvement in cattle mutilations dates back to the 1960s, although some proponents argue that such incidents have been occurring for much longer. A notable anecdote from 1897 recounts a supposed alien abduction of a heifer, which has since been debunked as a hoax. This narrative, while captivating, reflects the tendency of sensational journalism of the time, which lacked rigorous standards and often blurred the lines between fact and fiction.

Modern investigations into cattle mutilations have largely concluded that natural causes are responsible for the observed phenomena. For example, Sheriff Herb Marshall's experiment with a cow carcass revealed that natural processes, such as bloating and scavenging by insects, could account for the mutilation-like appearances. Scientific studies in Alberta further supported this, indicating that the missing body parts were consistent with those removed by scavengers like coyotes and birds.

Despite these findings, belief in alien or cult involvement persists among certain groups. The transcript emphasizes the importance of applying Occam's razor to the situation, suggesting that the simplest explanation—natural causes—should be favored over more elaborate theories involving extraterrestrial life or conspiracies. The narrative concludes by asserting that the continued belief in active mutilation reflects more on the believers than on the actual events, suggesting that a lack of familiarity with natural decomposition processes leads to misinterpretations of the evidence.

In summary, the cattle mutilation phenomenon is a complex interplay of natural processes, human interpretation, and cultural narratives. While sensational stories capture public imagination, scientific inquiry consistently points towards natural explanations, urging a more rational understanding of these occurrences.

The core myth surrounding cattle mutilation prominently features an alien visitation narrative. This narrative suggests that extraterrestrial beings are abducting cattle, performing vivisections, and then disposing of the remains. The transcript begins with a vivid depiction of a cow, Bessie, being hoisted by an unknown force into an alien craft, culminating in her gruesome discovery weeks later. Such sensational accounts have become part of modern paranormal lore, perpetuated by believers who attribute these incidents to extraterrestrial activity.

The belief in alien involvement dates back to the 1960s, when cattle mutilations began to be associated with UFO sightings and alien encounters. True believers often cite historical accounts, such as a controversial incident reported in April 1897, where a witness claimed to have seen a cigar-shaped craft abducting cattle. This event, however, is widely regarded as a hoax, contributing to the sensationalism surrounding the topic.

• [01:04] "The phenomenon is called cattle mutilation, and it's a common part of the modern paranormal lore."
• [03:13] "Belief in extraterrestrials as the cause of mutilations goes back to the 1960s, though true believers will often claim that the phenomenon has been going on for longer than that."
• [04:52] "The important point here is that Hamilton's story is part of a made-up series of newsworthy events perpetuated by inventive reporters at a time when journalism standards were not what they are today."

The chronological timeline of cattle mutilation narratives begins in the early 20th century, when reports of mutilated cattle in England sparked fears about lurking predators, believed to be wolves. As the century progressed, various culprits were suggested, including Satanists, hippies, and lunatics. However, the narrative took a significant turn in the 1960s when cattle mutilations became closely linked to extraterrestrial activity.

The 1970s and 1980s marked the height of the cattle mutilation scare, leading to official investigations by law enforcement and even the FBI. These investigations aimed to uncover the cause behind the phenomenon but concluded that most deaths were due to natural causes. By 1979, Sheriff Herb Marshall of Washington County, Arkansas, conducted an experiment that showed no alien activity was present; instead, natural scavenging processes accounted for the observed mutilations. The narrative has since persisted, with claims of new mutilations continuing to surface, although scientific studies have consistently pointed to natural explanations.

• [05:10] "Researcher Bill Ellis places the first occurrence of modern cattle mutilations in England in the early 20th century, where mutilated cattle led to fears that a wolf was on the prowl."
• [05:36] "The FBI was even compelled to investigate. Their investigation amounted to little more than collections of newspaper clippings because of jurisdictional issues, but they concluded that nothing seemed to be amiss in the deaths other than natural causes."
• [06:59] "For Sheriff Marshall, that was case closed on the mutilations in his area."

The transcript mentions several key figures in the narrative of cattle mutilations, including eyewitnesses and researchers. One notable figure is Alexander Hamilton, who is cited as a witness to a reported incident in April 1897. While his name might evoke connections to the founding father, this Alexander Hamilton was a farmer and businessman, known for fabricating stories. His account of witnessing a strange craft abducting a heifer is considered an admitted hoax, illustrating how sensational stories can shape public perception.

Another figure is Bill Ellis, a researcher who investigated the cattle mutilation phenomenon and traced its modern occurrences back to England in the early 20th century. His research helped to establish a timeline and context for the phenomenon, attributing the mutilations to various societal fears over decades. Sheriff Herb Marshall is also mentioned for his practical approach in 1979, wherein he conducted a field experiment to demonstrate that natural processes, rather than alien activity, were responsible for the mutilations.

• [04:42] "The entire cow napping story was an admitted hoax, part of the 1897 mystery airship flap, probably itself worthy of a future Skeptoid episode."
• [05:12] "Researcher Bill Ellis places the first occurrence of modern cattle mutilations in England in the early 20th century, where mutilated cattle led to fears that a wolf was on the prowl."
• [06:10] "In 1979, Sheriff Herb Marshall from Washington County, Arkansas, took a different approach when dealing with a flap of cattle mutilation reports in his jurisdiction."

Several specific, verified counter-evidence and official explanations debunk the myth of alien involvement in cattle mutilations. The transcript highlights the findings from investigations conducted during the 1970s and 1980s, particularly those by the FBI and local law enforcement, which concluded that the deaths of cattle were predominantly due to natural causes. For instance, Sheriff Herb Marshall's experiment in 1979 involved placing a fresh cow carcass in a field under conditions similar to those reported in mutilation cases. Over the course of 48 hours, the sheriff observed natural scavenging behavior, including bloating and the activity of blowflies, which led to the carcass resembling a mutilated animal.

Furthermore, a study conducted in Alberta, Canada, found that the body parts commonly reported missing from alleged mutilated cattle were consistent with those removed by scavengers, primarily coyotes and birds. The researchers concluded that the mutilations were indeed the work of scavenger animals after the cattle had died, challenging the idea of human or extraterrestrial interference.

• [05:54] "This was a conclusion shared by other investigations."
• [06:57] "A decade later, researchers in Alberta, Canada, looking into the matter, actually published a scientific study of such stories in their area."
• [09:01] "These are odd, but not at all unexplainable moments where scavenged and decomposed corpses are discovered by people who don’t know what they’re looking at."

The narrative of cattle mutilation has evolved from a collection of isolated incidents into a broader conspiracy narrative that connects various local occurrences. Initially, reports of mutilated cattle appeared sporadically, often attributed to natural predators or other mundane causes. However, as fears grew, these separate incidents began to be woven together under a singular theory involving extraterrestrial activity.

Over time, the narrative expanded to include elements of satanic cults, conspiracy theories about government involvement, and other sensational explanations. The 1960s marked a pivotal time when UFO sightings surged, and cattle mutilations began to be reported in conjunction with these sightings, leading to a more cohesive, albeit unfounded, conspiracy theory. Eyewitness accounts, such as those from Alexander Hamilton in the 1897 incident, were retroactively integrated into this narrative, despite being debunked as hoaxes.

Moreover, the lack of understanding about natural decomposition processes and scavenging behaviors contributed to the perception that these mutilations were the result of deliberate actions rather than natural occurrences. As noted in the transcript, this collective fear and misunderstanding have allowed the conspiracy narrative to persist, despite the absence of credible evidence linking these events to any singular nefarious agent.

• [01:43] "Often times, external body parts are missing, such as the ears, the eyes, the sex organs, and the tongue."
• [10:10] "...if we can ascribe the entire phenomenon to natural causes, then there’s no reason to insert any cult, conspiracy, or celebrity chef into the mix."
• [12:26] "Continued belief in active mutilation says more about the believers than it does about the world."

[00:03] You're listening to Skeptoid. I'm
[00:05] Allison Hudson from skeptoid.com.
[00:09] Cattle mutilations.
[00:12] It's 3:00 in the morning on a cattle
[00:14] ranch somewhere in Texas.
[00:16] Bessie the cow is half asleep,
[00:18] mindlessly chewing her cud, her ears
[00:20] twitching at flies as she dozes.
[00:23] Suddenly, she's bathed in a cold, bright
[00:25] light from above.
[00:27] She finds her hooves dangling beneath
[00:29] her as she's hoisted from the ground by
[00:30] an unknown force.
[00:32] She lets out a plaintive as she
[00:34] disappears into the strange, alien craft
[00:36] that has been hovering above her.
[00:38] A week later, rancher Bob stumbles upon
[00:41] the remains of poor Bessie. His prized
[00:43] cow has been skinned, her organs
[00:45] absconded with, and her remains
[00:47] discarded in the very pasture where she
[00:49] once grazed.
[00:51] For many, the above scenario is all too
[00:53] believable.
[00:54] They fear that extraterrestrial
[00:56] spaceships are kidnapping unsuspecting
[00:58] ungulates, conducting horrid
[00:59] vivisections, and then dumping the
[01:01] bodies.
[01:02] The phenomenon is called cattle
[01:04] mutilation, and it's a common part of
[01:06] the modern paranormal lore.
[01:08] A typical cattle mutilation story begins
[01:10] when the remains of a victim animal have
[01:12] been discovered.
[01:14] Most commonly, these remains have been
[01:15] found in some open field by a rancher,
[01:18] farmer, or other unlucky individual.
[01:21] The animal in question is commonly
[01:23] reported to have been in good health
[01:24] just days prior to the discovery, so the
[01:27] death is unexpected, and natural causes
[01:29] seems unlikely.
[01:31] The body itself appears to have been
[01:32] mutilated after death.
[01:34] Often times, external body parts are
[01:36] missing, such as the ears, the eyes, the
[01:39] sex organs, and the tongue.
[01:41] In some cases, flesh even appears to
[01:43] have been stripped off of the skull.
[01:45] Witnesses insist that the edges of the
[01:47] wounds are smooth and clean, as though
[01:49] done with a surgeon's scalpel.
[01:51] A scalpel also appears to have split
[01:53] open the stomach of many animals, and
[01:55] internal organs have been removed.
[01:58] A conspicuous absence of blood is
[02:00] another common feature.
[02:02] Always, the witnesses claim that there
[02:04] are no footprints, tire tracks, or
[02:06] scavenger prints leading either towards
[02:08] or away from the body.
[02:10] The death is a mystery, and foul play of
[02:12] some kind is assumed.
[02:15] The phenomenon does happen. A simple
[02:17] Google image search for cattle
[02:19] mutilation will bring up endless
[02:21] gruesome images of cattle, sheep, and
[02:23] other victim animals with their lips
[02:24] stripped from their teeth, their eye
[02:26] sockets staring out from circles of
[02:28] excised flesh, and their bellies open.
[02:31] The question is, how does it happen, and
[02:34] who, or what, is responsible for the
[02:37] condition of the remains?
[02:40] If you are one of many true believers in
[02:42] UFOs and alien encounters, then you're
[02:44] likely to point the finger at these
[02:46] extraterrestrial visitors.
[02:48] And the reasons you may offer as to why
[02:50] aliens have this continuing need to
[02:52] strip cattle and sheep of their sex
[02:54] organs and innards, those vary, but they
[02:57] usually involve some sort of medical
[02:59] experimentation, or even attempts to
[03:01] make some sort of cattle hybrid.
[03:04] As no one has ever actually been able to
[03:05] ask the aliens about it on the record,
[03:07] these explanations are all just
[03:09] conjecture.
[03:11] Belief in extraterrestrials as the cause
[03:13] of mutilations goes back to the 1960s,
[03:16] though true believers will often claim
[03:18] that the phenomenon has been going on
[03:19] for longer than that.
[03:21] As evidence, they may cite a widely
[03:24] circulated story reported in April 1897,
[03:27] when a strange flying object was caught
[03:29] in the act of cattle napping in Kansas.
[03:31] The witness to the incident, one
[03:33] Alexander Hamilton, described a
[03:35] cigar-shaped craft with a carriage
[03:37] underneath with
[03:39] "Six of the strangest beings I ever saw
[03:42] inside."
[03:43] As he watched,
[03:46] "It seemed to pause and hovered directly
[03:47] over a 2-year-old heifer, which was
[03:50] bawling and jumping, apparently fast in
[03:52] the fence. Going to her, we found a
[03:54] cable about a half inch in thickness
[03:56] made of some red material fastened in a
[03:58] slipknot around her neck,
[04:00] one end passing up to the vessel, and
[04:02] the heifer tangled in the wire fence.
[04:05] We tried to get it off, but could not.
[04:07] So, we cut the wire loose and stood in
[04:09] amazement to see the ship, heifer and
[04:11] all,
[04:12] rise slowly, disappearing to the
[04:15] northwest."
[04:16] Neighbor Thomas Link, 4 miles away,
[04:19] found the hide, legs, and head in the
[04:21] field the next day, and no tracks in the
[04:24] soft ground.
[04:25] Some of the less fact-checking websites
[04:28] actually attribute this story to the
[04:30] founding father Alexander Hamilton, but
[04:32] that Hamilton died in 1804. This story
[04:35] was told by another Alexander Hamilton,
[04:38] who was a farmer, a businessman, and
[04:41] also a liar.
[04:42] The entire cow napping story was an
[04:44] admitted hoax, part of the 1897 mystery
[04:47] airship flap,
[04:48] probably itself worthy of a future
[04:50] Skeptoid episode.
[04:52] The important point here is that
[04:53] Hamilton's story is part of a made-up
[04:55] series of newsworthy events perpetuated
[04:57] by inventive reporters at a time when
[04:59] journalism standards were not what they
[05:01] are today.
[05:03] Only its superficial resemblance to
[05:05] modern cattle mutilation tales keeps it
[05:07] alive in believer circles.
[05:10] Researcher Bill Ellis places the first
[05:12] occurrence of modern cattle mutilations
[05:14] in England in the early 20th century,
[05:16] where mutilated cattle led to fears that
[05:18] a wolf was on the prowl.
[05:20] Over the course of the century,
[05:21] mutilations were attributed to various
[05:23] evil agents, including Satanists,
[05:26] hippies, and lunatics, before becoming
[05:28] attached to extraterrestrials in the
[05:30] 1960s.
[05:31] The scare reached its height in the
[05:33] 1970s and 1980s, when several law
[05:36] enforcement and scientific
[05:37] investigations were launched to
[05:38] determine the cause of the phenomenon.
[05:41] The FBI was even compelled to
[05:42] investigate. Their investigation
[05:44] amounted to little more than collections
[05:46] of newspaper clippings because of
[05:48] jurisdictional issues, but they
[05:50] concluded that nothing seemed to be
[05:52] amiss in the deaths other than natural
[05:54] causes.
[05:56] This was a conclusion shared by other
[05:57] investigations.
[06:00] In 1979,
[06:01] Sheriff Herb Marshall from Washington
[06:04] County, Arkansas, took a different
[06:06] approach when dealing with a flap of
[06:07] cattle mutilation reports in his
[06:08] jurisdiction.
[06:10] He obtained a fresh cow corpse and put
[06:12] it out in a field in conditions like the
[06:14] ones so-called mutilations were being
[06:16] found in.
[06:17] The corpse was watched for 48 hours
[06:19] straight.
[06:20] No aliens came for the corpse, nor did
[06:22] big predators. Instead, the sheriff and
[06:25] his officers observed as a combination
[06:27] of bloating and blowflies went to work.
[06:31] Expanding gases split the stomach and
[06:33] exposed the internal organs. Blowflies
[06:36] feasted on the organs and laid eggs in
[06:38] the soft, exposed tissues of eyes, lips,
[06:40] and anuses, and the resulting maggots
[06:43] devoured the soft tissues down to the
[06:45] bone.
[06:46] These flies can hatch in as little as 10
[06:48] hours, and the larvae can mature in as
[06:50] little as 2 days.
[06:52] The result was a carcass that matched
[06:54] the common mutilation story, all from
[06:56] natural causes.
[06:57] For Sheriff Marshall, that was case
[06:59] closed on the mutilations in his area.
[07:02] A decade later, researchers in Alberta,
[07:04] Canada, looking into the matter,
[07:06] actually published a scientific study of
[07:08] such stories in their area.
[07:10] These researchers found that
[07:13] "The parts reported missing from
[07:14] mutilated cattle are the same as those
[07:16] known to be removed by scavengers,
[07:18] primarily coyotes and birds, in the
[07:20] early stages of scavenging a carcass."
[07:23] They concluded
[07:25] "The mutilations are the work of
[07:26] scavenger animals, mainly coyotes and
[07:29] birds.
[07:30] The mutilations occur after the animal
[07:32] has died,
[07:33] and any investigation of bizarre, gross
[07:35] findings in dead cattle must rule out
[07:38] scavenging beyond any reasonable doubt
[07:40] before proceeding to investigation of
[07:42] other possibilities."
[07:45] Not much actual scientific study of the
[07:47] mutilation phenomenon has been published
[07:49] since then, cuz science doesn't really
[07:52] have much more to say on the matter.
[07:54] The opinions of learned studies mean
[07:56] little to true believers, however,
[07:58] and today stories of new mutilations
[08:00] still make headlines on some news sites,
[08:02] though often relegated to sections for
[08:04] weird news or reader-submitted reports.
[08:08] Believers refuse to accept the
[08:10] scientific consensus, and persistent
[08:12] claims that these deaths are the result
[08:14] of nefarious alien activity.
[08:16] Is there any reason at all to set aside
[08:19] the natural explanation for an unnatural
[08:21] one?
[08:21] This is a great time to once again
[08:24] sharpen Occam's razor and apply it to
[08:26] the problem.
[08:27] Alien mutilations as an explanation
[08:29] require a whole host of other
[08:32] unsupported assumptions.
[08:34] That there are aliens. That they have
[08:36] interstellar travel ability. That they
[08:38] use that ability to visit Earth.
[08:40] And that they choose, when they come
[08:42] here, to routinely abduct and vivisect
[08:45] herd animals.
[08:47] None of these assumptions can even be
[08:49] remotely proven.
[08:51] Cut them away, and we have a series of
[08:53] facts about the condition of found
[08:55] carcasses that can all be attributed to
[08:57] natural, terrestrial causes.
[09:00] These are odd, but not at all
[09:01] unexplainable moments where scavenged
[09:03] and decomposed corpses are discovered by
[09:05] people who don't know what they're
[09:07] looking at, and who often are primed to
[09:09] believe that cattle mutilations occur.
[09:11] The actual culprits are flies, coyotes,
[09:14] birds, and even just gas.
[09:17] Variances in the condition of carcasses
[09:19] across the globe can be easily explained
[09:21] by the different scavenger species and
[09:22] insects in a given area, as well as the
[09:25] health of the creature at the moment of
[09:26] death, and the exact conditions where
[09:28] they fell.
[09:29] The similarities can be explained by the
[09:31] missing parts simply being the easiest
[09:33] to scavenge. Rip off an ear, peck out an
[09:36] eye, gnaw on the organs conveniently
[09:38] spilled out of the split belly by
[09:39] internal gases, let maggots pick things
[09:41] clean, and voila!
[09:44] It's not pleasant to describe, but it's
[09:46] the way nature works.
[09:49] At this point, I'm sure someone out
[09:51] there is shouting, "But what about
[09:52] satanic cults, or the black helicopters,
[09:55] or the chupacabra, or a crazed Chris
[09:58] Cosentino, or my pet theory of choice.
[10:01] Again, Occam's razor applies. You can
[10:04] suppose a list of culprits as long as
[10:06] your arm, but if we can ascribe the
[10:08] entire phenomenon to natural causes,
[10:10] then there's no reason to insert any
[10:12] cult, conspiracy, or celebrity chef into
[10:15] the mix.
[10:16] There's nothing to the cattle mutilation
[10:18] phenomenon that requires it.
[10:20] In fact, even using the term cattle
[10:22] mutilation makes an unnecessary
[10:25] assumption that some agent deliberately
[10:27] acted to mutilate the corpse.
[10:29] It's really just cattle decomposition
[10:31] and scavenging in particular natural
[10:33] conditions as interpreted by those who
[10:36] don't understand what's going on.
[10:38] A dead cow that has had its face chewed
[10:41] off by maggots is really super creepy.
[10:44] People in modern times aren't used to
[10:46] seeing dead things.
[10:48] We don't know what they're supposed to
[10:49] look like, only what we think they're
[10:51] supposed to look like.
[10:53] Like so many of these topics, it's easy
[10:56] to get caught up in the individual
[10:57] claims of individual cases.
[10:59] That this corpse had some unexplained
[11:01] marking, or that case happened the day
[11:03] after black helicopters were spotted
[11:04] overhead.
[11:05] But so many of those individual claims
[11:08] fall under the realm of anecdotal
[11:10] evidence, anomaly hunting, misreporting,
[11:13] or just plain argument from ignorance.
[11:16] Unless and until believers can point to
[11:18] some consistent or persistent pattern of
[11:20] evidence across a series of alleged
[11:22] mutilations that is unexplained except
[11:25] via their culprit of choice, there's no
[11:27] sound reason to accept the hypothesis.
[11:30] And even if we allow that aliens, or the
[11:33] Illuminati, or whatever is actually out
[11:35] there doing this,
[11:37] we're faced with the question of why.
[11:39] The answers are as varied as the
[11:41] culprits.
[11:42] If you believe that the culprit is
[11:44] aliens, you assume some bizarre alien
[11:47] experiment. If your culprit is a cult,
[11:49] you assume the purpose is ritual and
[11:51] likely satanic. If you believe it's the
[11:53] government, then they must be attempting
[11:55] to spread population sickening prions.
[11:58] That every explanation fits equally well
[12:00] depending on the assumption of the
[12:02] culprit suggests that none of the
[12:03] explanations is any better than the
[12:05] other.
[12:07] Nothing about the cattle mutilation
[12:08] phenomenon requires us to suppose an
[12:10] actual act of mutilation.
[12:13] Cattle die of natural causes, they
[12:15] decompose by natural methods, and
[12:17] sometimes they are scavenged in such a
[12:19] way that they look to those not used to
[12:20] seeing dead things as though they had
[12:22] been vivisected.
[12:24] Continued belief in active mutilation
[12:26] says more about the believers than it
[12:28] does about the world.
[12:31] Skeptoid is not just a hobby. It's a
[12:33] non-profit public charity.
[12:35] Just as you depend on a new show every
[12:37] week, we depend on your monthly
[12:38] micro-payment.
[12:40] If you're not already a supporter,
[12:42] please come to skeptoid.com and click on
[12:44] support Skeptoid, and make this a
[12:46] two-way street for many years to come.
[12:49] You are listening to Skeptoid, a
[12:51] listener-supported program.
[12:53] I'm Allison Hudson for skeptoid.com.
[12:56] You can also find me on Twitter,
[12:58] username @aroyalmyth.

Introduction to Crop Circles and Their Origins

In this episode of Skeptoid, Brian Dunning explores the phenomenon of crop circles, often attributed to various mysterious forces, including extraterrestrial beings and paranormal activities. The discussion begins with a light-hearted tone, referencing the use of dowsing rods and tinfoil helmets as a humorous nod to the more eccentric beliefs surrounding crop circles.

The Confession of Bower and Chorley

Dunning recounts the pivotal moment in 1991 when Doug Bower and Dave Chorley confessed to creating crop circles in England since 1976 using simple tools like ropes and planks. Their confession was initially met with excitement, as it seemed to demystify the phenomenon. However, Dunning argues that this confession does not negate the existence of other unexplained crop circles, similar to how the confession of Ray Wallace's family regarding Bigfoot footprints did not eliminate the possibility of other sources.

Continued Belief in Paranormal Explanations

Despite the widespread acknowledgment that most crop circles are man-made, a small group of believers persists in attributing them to paranormal phenomena. Some researchers have even suggested that the same forces behind genuine crop circles might influence the actions of hoaxers, thereby maintaining a narrative of unknown intelligence at work.

Colin Andrews and Dowsing Research

Colin Andrews, a prominent figure in crop circle research, has employed dowsing and psychic claims as part of his investigative methods. Dunning critiques Andrews' reliance on untestable hypotheses, highlighting a lack of scientific rigor in his approach. Andrews conducted experiments with a device measuring brainwave activity, claiming that spikes in EEG readings corresponded with dowsing rod movements. Dunning, however, points out that such spikes could be attributed to excitement or nervousness rather than any paranormal force.

Critique of Eyewitness Accounts

Dunning raises questions about the credibility of eyewitness accounts claiming to have seen crop circles form in mere seconds. He notes that these witnesses are often believers in the phenomenon, which raises doubts about their objectivity. Moreover, he criticizes the absence of photographic evidence from these supposed events, suggesting that conscientious researchers should demand higher standards of proof.

The Oliver Castle Video Hoax

One notable case discussed is the Oliver Castle video, which purportedly shows white balls of light creating a crop circle. Dunning reveals that the video was later admitted to be a hoax, yet many still believe in its authenticity. This illustrates a broader issue of how some individuals remain unconvinced by evidence that contradicts their beliefs, even when presented with clear demonstrations of deception.

Conclusion: The Nature of Belief

Dunning concludes with a reflection on the nature of belief and skepticism, emphasizing the difficulty in changing the minds of those who are deeply invested in paranormal explanations. He highlights the importance of critical thinking and the need for evidence-based conclusions in the face of extraordinary claims. The episode serves as a reminder of the challenges faced by skeptics in a world where belief often trumps evidence.

The core myth promoted in the transcript centers around the phenomenon of crop circles, which have been popularly linked to alien visitation or other paranormal activities. The idea posits that these intricate geometric patterns appearing in fields are not merely the result of human activity, but rather the manifestations of extraterrestrial intelligence or unexplained natural forces. The narrator, Brian Dunning, humorously suggests various possibilities for these formations, from UFOs to natural phenomena like ball lightning.

One of the key historical moments mentioned is the public confession by two English men, Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, in 1991, who admitted to creating crop circles since 1976 using simple tools like ropes and planks. This revelation was initially seen as a solution to the mystery surrounding crop circles. However, the narrator argues that this confession does not negate the possibility of other, unexplained origins for crop circles. He points out that even after the confession, many individuals still believe in the paranormal origins of some crop circles, which reflects the enduring nature of the myth despite evidence to the contrary.

• [01:50] "...two old English guys Doug Bower and Dave Chorley went public with the confession that they had been making crop circles throughout England since 1976..."
• [01:24] "...the media reported that the crop circle phenomenon had been solved but of course to any intelligent person..."
• [07:14] "...what about their formation? The people who make them use simple tools and surveying techniques..."

The chronological timeline of the crop circle phenomenon begins with the first known instances of crop circles appearing in England in 1976. This was later followed by a significant turn of events in 1991 when Doug Bower and Dave Chorley confessed to creating crop circles as a hoax. Their admission was initially taken as evidence that crop circles were purely man-made, leading to a wave of skepticism regarding paranormal explanations.

Despite this confession, the narrative around crop circles has evolved. While many researchers now acknowledge that the majority of crop circles are indeed human-made, there remain steadfast believers who argue that paranormal forces are still at play. The mention of Colin Andrews as a prominent crop circle researcher illustrates this shift. He has even employed methods such as dowsing and psychics in his research, attempting to link these human-made structures to otherworldly forces.

This ongoing debate illustrates how the crop circle mythos has adapted over time, particularly with the rise of conspiracy theories suggesting that even the hoaxers might be influenced by external, perhaps alien, forces. Reports of unexplained sightings, such as the alleged formation of crop circles by hovering balls of light, continue to fuel intrigue and speculation.

• [00:48] "...they had been making crop circles throughout England since 1976 using ropes and planks..."
• [01:29] "...to any intelligent person Bower and Chorley’s confession didn’t prove a thing..."
• [03:03] "...one prominent researcher of crop circles is a man named Colin Andrews..."

Key figures in the crop circle narrative include Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, who played a pivotal role in the public perception of crop circles. Their confession in 1991 that they had been creating these formations since 1976 using basic tools served to challenge the prevailing belief in their extraterrestrial origins. Bower and Chorley's lighthearted approach, claiming they created crop circles after pub nights, added a humorous twist to a subject often taken seriously by believers.

Another significant figure mentioned is Colin Andrews, a researcher who has dedicated much of his work to examining crop circles. Andrews, once affiliated with Circles Phenomenon Research International (CPRI), has utilized methods like dowsing and psychics in his studies, asserting that these practices yield insights into the circles' origins. His perspective contributes to the ongoing debate, as he attempts to maintain a connection between crop circles and unexplained phenomena despite the evidence of human involvement.

Lastly, the transcript references Masahiro Kohata, a Japanese software engineer who developed a device to measure brain wave activity, which was used by Andrews in experiments to assess the responses of dowsers in crop circles. The findings from these experiments, while intriguing, have been critiqued for lack of rigorous scientific grounding.

• [00:45] "...two old English guys Doug Bower and Dave Chorley went public with the confession..."
• [03:05] "...one prominent researcher of crop circles is a man named Colin Andrews..."
• [04:00] "...Masahiro Kohata...constructed a simple device for measuring electric encephalogram activity..."

The transcript provides several pieces of counter-evidence aimed at debunking the myth of paranormal origins for crop circles. One of the most significant revelations comes from the confession of Doug Bower and Dave Chorley in 1991, where they admitted to creating crop circles since 1976 using basic tools and techniques. This admission was a critical moment that cast doubt on the supposed extraterrestrial origins of these formations.

Additionally, the narrator, Brian Dunning, points out that even the most ardent crop circle researchers acknowledge that the majority of crop circles are man-made. He critiques the methods of Colin Andrews, who relies on dowsing and psychic phenomena, arguing that these approaches lack scientific rigor. For instance, Dunning mentions that Andrews observed spikes in brainwave activity during dowsing, but he fails to provide a definitive explanation for what these spikes signify.

Moreover, Dunning highlights the absence of photographic evidence from eyewitnesses who claim to have seen crop circles form in mere seconds. He questions how numerous investigators, equipped with cameras, consistently fail to capture these events. This lack of evidence further undermines the credibility of claims that crop circles result from paranormal activities.

• [01:50] "...they had been making crop circles throughout England since 1976..."
• [07:13] "...how can they spend all day and night...and produce only a lengthy list of verbal reports and no video..."
• [06:10] "...dowsing of any kind has never passed any rigorously controlled test..."

The construction of the crop circle narrative involves the stitching together of various local occurrences into a broader conspiracy theory surrounding alien involvement. The transcript highlights how the belief in crop circles as manifestations of extraterrestrial intelligence gained traction despite the evidence of human hoaxers like Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, who confessed to their role in creating these formations in 1991.

Those who maintain that crop circles are linked to paranormal phenomena often cite eyewitness accounts of seeing circles form rapidly. However, Dunning notes that these eyewitnesses are typically believers in crop circle myths, which raises questions about the reliability of their testimonies. Furthermore, he emphasizes the absence of video or photographic evidence to substantiate these claims, suggesting that the narrative is built on anecdotal experiences rather than concrete evidence.

Moreover, the idea that even hoaxers could be influenced by alien forces adds another layer to the conspiracy narrative. Researchers like Colin Andrews have suggested that unknown intelligences may control the minds and actions of those who create crop circles, thus perpetuating the belief in UFO-related phenomena. This blending of human activities with supernatural explanations exemplifies how disparate, unrelated events can be woven into a singular, cohesive narrative.

• [01:30] "...Bower and Chorley’s confession didn’t prove a thing any more than Ray Wallace’s family’s confession..."
• [03:40] "...some researchers now believe that the same paranormal or alien forces...are also responsible for controlling the minds and actions of the hoaxers..."
• [09:19] "...if they’d seen a real event they probably would have used that camera hanging around their neck..."

[00:00] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:02] Dunning from skeptoid comm crop circle
[00:05] jerks tonight we're going to take our
[00:09] dowsing rods and our tinfoil helmets
[00:11] stand out in a remote wheat field and
[00:13] try to feel the psychic energies as a
[00:16] UFO comes down and forms a gigantic
[00:19] complicated geometric pattern by
[00:21] crushing the wheat it might use a
[00:24] whirling dimensional vortex as its
[00:26] mechanism it might be ball lightning or
[00:28] some strange effect of the wind it might
[00:31] be the aliens trying to communicate with
[00:33] us it might be the earth herself
[00:36] expressing profond at ease or it might
[00:39] be a couple of clowns with a piece of
[00:40] wood we've all heard how in 1991 two old
[00:45] English guys Doug Bower and Dave Chorley
[00:48] went public with the confession that
[00:50] they had been making crop circles
[00:51] throughout England since 1976 using
[00:55] ropes and planks and simple surveyors
[00:58] tricks they generally did it after pub
[01:00] night on Fridays and had a rollicking
[01:02] good time they had been enjoying the
[01:05] resulting media circus immensely and
[01:07] would gladly have taken their secret to
[01:09] the grave but for Bauer's wife who
[01:11] noticed the mileage on his car and
[01:13] wondered if he was having an affair so
[01:16] to protect Bowers marital bliss the two
[01:18] made a public confession and even did
[01:21] live demonstrations on TV the media
[01:24] reported that the crop circle phenomenon
[01:25] had been solved but of course to any
[01:29] intelligent person Bower and Chorley's
[01:30] confession didn't prove a thing any more
[01:33] than ray Wallace's family's confession
[01:35] about him making big footprints proved
[01:38] that there weren't also a thousand other
[01:40] sources of footprints artists John
[01:42] Lundberg who formed a group called
[01:44] circle makers has been making many of
[01:47] the most complex and beautiful crop
[01:48] circles ever since the public confession
[01:51] including many for commercial purposes
[01:53] even I made an effort in the late 1980s
[01:56] my friend and I took some old skis and
[01:59] we're going to make a crop circle in
[02:00] Irvine California but when we got there
[02:02] we discovered the last remaining field
[02:05] had just been plowed for a new
[02:06] subdivision one good thing about the
[02:10] crop circle phenomenon is that there are
[02:11] very few people left who
[02:13] that they have some cause other than
[02:15] pranksters but those few people are
[02:18] resolute in their belief hoaxing is now
[02:21] so prominent that most of the staunchest
[02:23] crop circle researchers now concede that
[02:26] the vast majority of crop circles are
[02:28] man-made however some of them have found
[02:32] an out that lets them continue to stroke
[02:34] their paranormal explanations for even
[02:37] the man-made variety some researchers
[02:40] now believe that the same paranormal or
[02:42] alien forces that create real crop
[02:45] circles are also responsible for
[02:47] controlling the minds and actions of the
[02:50] hoaxers thus even the man-made crop
[02:53] circles are equally significant as
[02:55] evidence that an unknown intelligence is
[02:58] behind all crop circles one prominent
[03:03] researcher of crop circles is a man
[03:05] named Colin Andrews who used to call
[03:07] himself CPRI or circles phenomenon
[03:11] research international until he ran out
[03:13] of money a few years ago his website at
[03:16] crop circle infocomm offers cd-roms and
[03:20] PowerPoint presentations about crop
[03:22] circles for sale but little in the way
[03:25] of testable hypotheses about non-human
[03:28] origins of crop circles his research
[03:31] methods largely Center on dowsing and
[03:33] psychics which is what I'd do too since
[03:36] those sources produce claims of such a
[03:38] nature that they cannot be tested or
[03:40] falsified in 1993 Andrews contacted
[03:45] Masahiro Cohutta a Japanese software
[03:48] engineer who constructed a simple device
[03:50] for measuring electric encephalo Graham
[03:52] activity and displaying it colorfully on
[03:55] a Macintosh screen he calls it the
[03:57] interactive brainwave visual analyzer
[04:00] kajada came to england and the two of
[04:03] them trumped around taking amateur aegs
[04:05] of people on the street as a control and
[04:08] also of dowsers in the act of examining
[04:12] crop circles
[04:13] Andrews reported what we found measuring
[04:18] with a computer real-time in the fields
[04:20] was that the right brainwave activity of
[04:22] the dowser at the precise moment those
[04:25] seven rings were measured and react
[04:27] by the dowsing rods spiked in all the
[04:30] brainwave frequencies alpha theta beta
[04:34] and Delta at the precise moment that
[04:37] dowsing rods moved Andrews regards this
[04:41] as hard scientific evidence that the
[04:43] dowsers are reacting to a physical
[04:45] manifestation of the crop circle though
[04:48] he's vague on what that might be as it
[04:51] turns out kajada had also done similar
[04:53] experiments on his own in the 1970s when
[04:57] he applied an earlier version of his
[04:58] device to magicians and self-described
[05:01] psychics while they were performing
[05:03] spoon bending tricks he got the same
[05:06] results higher EEG activity during the
[05:10] spoon bending performances was this
[05:13] evidence of an unknown psychic force
[05:15] science writer and magic teacher during
[05:18] in the Sagan son of Carl Sagan offered a
[05:21] different conclusion if there is a
[05:25] tightly correlated increase in mental
[05:27] activity while a psychic is bending
[05:29] spoons it is probably because he is
[05:32] nervous he is going to get caught now
[05:36] I'll grant that most dowsers especially
[05:38] those who invest the time and money to
[05:40] travel the crop circle sites are not
[05:42] consciously out to fool anyone
[05:44] and thus aren't nervous that any
[05:46] deception will be detected but since
[05:49] dowsing of any kind has never passed any
[05:52] rigorously controlled test sorry but it
[05:55] hasn't and it's well established that
[05:57] many psychics and other mediums are
[05:59] genuinely but unconsciously using
[06:01] well-established cognitive phenomena to
[06:04] guide their divinations sorry but they
[06:07] are honest dowsers are probably
[06:10] genuinely excited every time their
[06:13] dowsing rods move and genuine excitement
[06:16] is just as good at making an EEG jump as
[06:19] is the state of being nervous most
[06:23] neurologists agree that EEG s are useful
[06:25] to a certain point you can derive basic
[06:29] information from them but they are too
[06:31] vague to indicate anything complex like
[06:34] sending telepathic messages intense
[06:36] concentration on a pattern for example
[06:39] can produce a recognizer
[06:40] we'll signal in some cases an epileptic
[06:43] seizure throws up a giant spike but to
[06:47] state that any given spike indicates the
[06:49] presence of a paranormal force and not
[06:52] the excitement or nervousness of the
[06:54] dowser you need to leave the realm of
[06:56] what neurologists have learned and enter
[06:59] the land of pure speculation
[07:01] Andrews himself states that the same
[07:03] spikes in EEG activity were observed on
[07:06] one occasion when a military helicopter
[07:07] flew close by such a flyby would make me
[07:11] pretty nervous so much for dousing the
[07:14] crop circles what about their formation
[07:17] the people who make them use simple
[07:19] tools and surveying techniques to
[07:21] transfer complex plans into a full-scale
[07:23] wheat field but what about those said to
[07:26] be formed by paranormal means how does
[07:29] that happen
[07:30] Colin Andrews explains further the
[07:34] eyewitnesses I've interviewed in many
[07:36] countries over the years have all agreed
[07:38] with me on one point when they claim to
[07:40] have seen circles form they appear in 10
[07:43] to 15 seconds in any picture you see if
[07:48] Colin Andrews visiting a crop circle
[07:50] he's loaded with camera equipment and so
[07:52] is everyone else in the picture in fact
[07:54] it's hard to find any picture of crop
[07:56] circle investigators where everyone in
[07:58] the shot is not holding a camera or
[08:00] binoculars or something finger on the
[08:02] trigger so my question to Colin Andrews
[08:05] would be did you not ask these crop
[08:08] circle investigators who witnessed the
[08:09] formations why in every single case they
[08:13] failed to produce a single photograph or
[08:15] frame of videotape showing this
[08:17] wonderful creation if I were Colin
[08:20] Andrews these investigators are not
[08:22] those whose testimonials I would flaunt
[08:24] to the world instead I would tell them
[08:26] they screwed up and probably even
[08:28] accused them of trying to hoax me how
[08:31] can they spend all day and night camped
[08:33] out on the hilltop finger on the video
[08:35] camera trigger witness a crop circle
[08:38] forming and produce only a lengthy list
[08:41] of verbal reports and no video
[08:45] inexcusable for a conscientious
[08:47] researcher the first thing I would fault
[08:49] Colin Andrews for would be requiring
[08:51] only the lowest of standards for the
[08:54] info
[08:54] he accepts as evidence so what about all
[08:58] these numerous eyewitness accounts of
[09:00] crop circles being formed in seconds by
[09:03] hovering balls of light well again I'd
[09:06] point to the evidence issue these
[09:08] eyewitnesses or at least those reporting
[09:11] the accounts always turn out to be crop
[09:14] circle believers if they'd seen a real
[09:16] event they probably would have used that
[09:19] camera hanging around their neck but in
[09:21] every case they've failed to do so well
[09:25] almost every case there is one famous
[09:29] video of white balls of light actually
[09:31] creating an entire crop circle in
[09:34] seconds it's called the Oliver Castle
[09:37] video and you can find it on YouTube it
[09:40] was made by John Webb in 1996 or 1997 a
[09:44] partner in a small video production
[09:47] company called first cut studio he took
[09:50] some simple video of the completed crop
[09:52] circle and ran it through their quantal
[09:54] paint box in a video subsequently
[09:57] broadcast on the Discovery Channel and
[09:59] on National Geographic he showed how he
[10:02] rubber stamped other pieces of the wheat
[10:04] field background to erase the crop
[10:06] circle and then uh Narae stat bit by bit
[10:09] underneath some flying white dots that
[10:11] he added he then added some shake and
[10:14] some artificial generation loss to the
[10:15] video and presto a great hoax was done
[10:19] for years it was considered definitive
[10:21] proof by many crop circle believers but
[10:24] when he finally went public with how he
[10:27] made it guess what
[10:28] few believed him and many still believe
[10:32] to this day that the video is genuine
[10:34] and that it's his confession that is the
[10:37] real hoax webpages accuse him of earning
[10:40] huge sums of money government payoffs
[10:43] for discrediting a genuine video even if
[10:46] you read the comments on YouTube which
[10:49] are granted mostly the half literate and
[10:51] profanity-laced ravings of young people
[10:53] it's painfully clear that many people
[10:56] cannot be convinced by any evidence that
[10:59] a paranormal phenomenon is not real and
[11:03] although some prominent crop circle
[11:05] researchers Colin Andrews among them
[11:08] do accept that the video is a fake many
[11:11] do not believe ur websites assert that
[11:13] top video analysts have proven that the
[11:16] oliver castle video cannot have been
[11:19] faked my favorite among these top
[11:22] analysts is jim delito so whom you may
[11:25] remember from skeptoid episode 41 Dilla
[11:29] toso is one of the most vocal UFO
[11:31] advocates and claims to have spent six
[11:33] weeks at an underground base for gray
[11:35] aliens outside Dulce New Mexico judge
[11:39] his credibility for yourself
[11:42] it's an interesting world we live in
[11:44] where you can tell a group of people
[11:46] that you made a crop circle with a rope
[11:47] even show them how you did it and they
[11:49] still insist that an unknown paranormal
[11:52] intelligence did it you can tell them
[11:54] that two plus two equals four and
[11:56] they'll insist that it's five even after
[11:59] you line up for apples for them you can
[12:01] make a simple hoax video with them
[12:03] sitting at your elbow watching and
[12:05] they'll conclude the videos real and
[12:07] you're a paid government stooge and then
[12:10] they'll put their tin foil helmet back
[12:12] on thanks to all of you who continue to
[12:16] send in great ideas and references for
[12:18] the show it's a huge workload as you can
[12:20] imagine and every little bit helps just
[12:23] come to skeptoid comm and email me with
[12:25] your suggestions also to my numerous
[12:28] detractors keep on disagreeing with me
[12:31] your contributions to the skeptic email
[12:34] discussion list and the skeptoid web
[12:36] forums are what keep the community
[12:38] lively you're listening to skeptoid I'm
[12:42] Brian Dunning from skeptoid comm
[12:46] you

In this episode of Skeptoid, Brian Dunning delves into the Pentagon's Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which gained significant media attention following a New York Times article in December 2017. The program, which operated from 2007 to 2012 with a budget of $22 million, was initially perceived as a serious investigation into UFO phenomena, especially after the release of compelling thermal images captured by U.S. fighter jets. However, Dunning argues that the program was less about genuine inquiry into unidentified aerial phenomena and more about a successful public relations campaign orchestrated by UFO enthusiasts.

The AATIP was initiated by former Nevada Senator Harry Reid, with backing from Senators Daniel Inouye and Ted Stevens, who were concerned about potential national security threats posed by UFOs. The bulk of the funding was allocated to Robert Bigelow, a billionaire known for his interest in the paranormal and UFOs, particularly through his ownership of Skinwalker Ranch, a site infamous for alleged paranormal activities. Bigelow's involvement raised eyebrows, as he had a history of promoting alien visitation theories and had previously formed the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) to investigate such phenomena.

Dunning highlights the connections between key figures involved in AATIP and their backgrounds in the UFO community. For instance, Hal Puthoff, a parapsychologist associated with the CIA's Project Stargate, was involved in AATIP and had previously worked with Bigelow. This overlap in personnel suggests a continuity of belief in extraterrestrial life and paranormal phenomena rather than an objective investigation into UFOs.

Furthermore, Dunning points out that the videos released as evidence of UFOs have been subject to scrutiny. For example, one notable video shows a craft that appears to be a stingray-shaped object, which military pilots initially found impressive. However, experts have explained that the visual effects can be attributed to the characteristics of the infrared camera used, leading to misinterpretations of the footage. Dunning references a detailed analysis available on the Metabunk website that clarifies these optical illusions.

Additionally, Dunning discusses the role of Tom DeLonge, a former musician who founded To The Stars Academy (TTSA), which aims to promote the study of UFOs and related phenomena. DeLonge's organization has attracted funding from UFO enthusiasts and has been criticized for its lack of rigorous scientific inquiry. The intermingling of UFOs with other paranormal beliefs, such as telepathy, is a recurring theme among the individuals involved in these programs.

Ultimately, Dunning concludes that while AATIP and similar initiatives have captured public imagination, they have not provided empirical evidence supporting claims of alien visitation. Instead, they reflect a broader trend of sensationalism and pseudoscience that can easily sway both the public and policymakers. The episode serves as a reminder of the importance of critical thinking and skepticism when evaluating extraordinary claims.

The core myth or narrative surrounding alien visitation, as detailed in the transcript, revolves around the establishment of the Pentagon's Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which garnered significant public attention following a 2017 New York Times article. This program purportedly investigated unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and associated phenomena, leading to the release of compelling video evidence showing unexplainable thermal images captured by U.S. fighter planes. The initial framing suggested that the government was endorsing the reality of alien visitation, igniting widespread speculation and excitement among the public and conspiracy theorists alike.

The narrative has been influenced heavily by key figures, particularly Harry Reid, a former senator from Nevada, who championed the program in light of concerns over national security threats posed by UFOs. This initiative was reported to have operated from 2007 to 2012 and spent approximately $22 million on its investigations.

However, the transcript suggests that this narrative is not as straightforward as it appears. Rather than a legitimate exploration of extraterrestrial threats, the program is characterized as a strategic public relations effort by UFO enthusiasts seeking to validate their long-held beliefs in alien visitation and paranormal phenomena. This reshapes the perception of the narrative from a serious investigation to a sensationalized myth fueled by personal agendas.

•  
  • [00:11] "the Pentagon's UFO hunt in December 2017 the New York Times ran a story that shocked readers worldwide..."
  • [01:01] "this whole program was not so much an official investigation of a genuine phenomenon so much as it was a singularly successful public relations coup..."
  • [03:25] "do you believe in aliens I'm absolutely convinced that...there has been and is an existing ET presence..."

The chronological timeline of the narrative surrounding UFOs and alien visitation begins with the establishment of the AATIP in 2007 through 2012. This initiative was primarily the brainchild of Harry Reid, with funding of approximately $22 million secured to investigate UFO phenomena, particularly in the context of national security. The program gained notoriety in December 2017 when the New York Times published an article revealing its existence, which included dramatic video footage showing unidentified aerial phenomena.

Since the release of this information, the narrative has expanded significantly, with various figures promoting theories of alien visitation. Robert Bigelow, a key player in the program, had a longstanding interest in the paranormal, significantly influencing the program's direction and outcomes. His connections to the UFO community and his work at Skinwalker Ranch lend credence to the notion that the AATIP was less about scientific inquiry and more about advancing personal beliefs regarding extraterrestrial life.

The narrative continued to evolve with the formation of To The Stars Academy (TTSA) in 2015 by Tom DeLonge, which aimed to further explore and promote the existence of UFOs and alien life. This organization has continued to engage the public and garner financial support, thus keeping the narrative alive and expanding its reach, even as the scientific legitimacy of the claims remains questionable.

•  
  • [00:20] "it was the revelation of a Pentagon program called the advanced Aviation threat identification program..."
  • [01:22] "the advanced Aviation threat identification program...was the brainchild of Harry Reid..."
  • [06:30] "to date around 3,000 ufologists conspiracy theorists and other enthusiasts have sent money to support TTSA's mission..."

The transcript highlights several key figures who have played significant roles in shaping the narrative of UFOs and alien visitation:

• Harry Reid - As a former senator from Nevada, he was instrumental in pushing for the establishment of the AATIP, motivated by concerns that UFOs could pose a national security threat. Reid's advocacy led to the allocation of government funds to investigate these phenomena.
• Robert Bigelow - A billionaire hotel entrepreneur and founder of Bigelow Aerospace, he was a major player in the AATIP's operations, receiving significant funding for his interests in UFO research. His prior involvement with Skinwalker Ranch and the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) connects him directly to the UFO community. He is quoted expressing a strong belief in extraterrestrial life.
• Tom DeLonge - The former rock musician founded To The Stars Academy (TTSA) in 2015, aiming to further the exploration of UFO phenomena and to promote the idea of an alien presence on Earth.
• Luis Elizondo - The director of AATIP, he remains a somewhat enigmatic figure whose claims about his background and expertise have raised questions. He is currently associated with TTSA.

Collectively, these individuals have not only promoted the narrative of alien visitation but have also created a network that perpetuates interest in UFOs, despite the lack of empirical evidence supporting their claims.

•  
  • [01:32] "the central figure was Bigelow known to NASA for Bigelow Aerospace but known to the UFO and paranormal communities..."
  • [06:09] "Dong writes that this is necessary because the public interest in the outer edges of science has always been suffocated by mainstream ideology..."
  • [09:00] "Elizondo's biography from AATIP listed roles in intelligence at virtually every National Security Agency you can think of..."

In examining the claims surrounding the AATIP and the evidence for alien visitation, several specific counter-evidences and official explanations are presented in the transcript:

• The transcript suggests that the spectacular videos released by AATIP, which appeared to show UFOs, have been explained by skeptics as the result of optical illusions caused by the technology used to capture the footage. For instance, one video was described as showing a stingray-shaped craft, which was attributed to the characteristics of the Fleer infrared camera used by U.S. fighter planes.
• Another video, presented by Tom DeLonge during a TTSA event, was eventually revealed to be merely an amateur video of a helium balloon shaped like the number one, demonstrating the lack of rigorous investigation into the claims made by TTSA and AATIP.

Furthermore, the transcript emphasizes that none of the programs discussed have presented any empirical evidence supporting claims of alien visitation. Instead, the focus has shifted towards sensationalism and personal beliefs rather than objective scientific inquiry. This highlights the narrative's reliance on anecdotal evidence and poorly substantiated claims.

•  
  • [10:02] "none of the program discussed have presented any empirical evidence..."
  • [10:05] "the reason is simply that these people are not very good investigators and certainly not impartial ones..."
  • [12:53] "it was revealed to have been amateur video shot of a metallic foil party balloon..."

The narrative surrounding UFOs and alien visitation has been constructed through the interweaving of various unrelated occurrences, often exaggerated or misrepresented to support a singular conspiracy theory. The transcript points out several key examples:

• The AATIP was initiated due to concerns that UFOs might represent a national security threat, a narrative that echoes earlier programs like Project Blue Book, which sought to address similar issues in the 1950s and 60s. This historical precedent helps stitch together a continuous thread of concern regarding UFOs.
• Robert Bigelow's longstanding interest in paranormal phenomena, particularly his acquisition of Skinwalker Ranch, is another critical element. The ranch has been linked with numerous paranormal incidents, including cattle mutilations and UFO sightings, thus reinforcing the narrative that such phenomena deserve serious investigation.
• Additionally, the connection between prominent figures like Harry Reid, who secured funding for AATIP, and Bigelow, a significant donor and proponent of UFO research, creates an impression of a coordinated effort to promote the idea of an ongoing alien presence.

By linking these disparate elements—government programs, paranormal research, and personal beliefs—the narrative has been crafted to present a coherent conspiracy theory that suggests a widespread cover-up of alien visitation, despite the absence of substantial evidence to support such claims.

•  
  • [01:43] "UFOs may represent a national security threat..."
  • [03:03] "Bigelow described his position on alien visitation..."
  • [06:05] "the public interest in the outer edges of science...has always been suffocated by mainstream ideology..."

[00:00] [Music]
[00:03] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:05] Dunning from skeptoid tocom the
[00:08] pentagon's UFO
[00:11] hunt in December 2017 the New York Times
[00:15] ran a story that shocked readers
[00:17] worldwide it was the revelation of a
[00:20] pentagon program called the advanced
[00:23] Aviation threat identification program
[00:26] which spent $22 million from 20 7 to
[00:31] 2012 investigating UFOs videos were
[00:35] released showing apparently
[00:36] unexplainable thermal images of
[00:39] maneuvering UFOs taken from us fighter
[00:42] planes the internet went mad as people
[00:45] embraced what appeared to be government
[00:47] endorsement of actual alien visitation
[00:51] but then cooler heads had a chance to
[00:53] look at the reports and we now view the
[00:56] episode quite differently for it turns
[00:59] out that this whole program was not so
[01:01] much an official investigation of a
[01:03] genuine phenomenon so much as it was a
[01:06] singularly successful public relations
[01:09] coup by a group of lifelong UFO
[01:12] Believers and promoters of alien
[01:14] visitation and the
[01:17] Paranormal what was reported by the New
[01:20] York Times was that the advanced
[01:22] Aviation threat identification program
[01:24] or atip sometimes given as the advanced
[01:27] Aerospace threat identification program
[01:29] progam was the brainchild of Harry Reid
[01:32] then a senator from Nevada with support
[01:35] from Senators Daniel inoway and Ted
[01:37] Stevens due to their shared concern that
[01:40] UFOs may represent a national security
[01:43] threat the same reason Project Blue Book
[01:46] ran in the 1950s and 60s and other
[01:49] similar programs since the funding was
[01:51] reported to be $22 million over 5 years
[01:54] with most of it going to Robert Bigalow
[01:57] a Nevada hotel billionaire and space
[02:00] entrepreneur the project was run at the
[02:02] Pentagon by a mysterious man named Luis
[02:06] elisondo that's all well and good seems
[02:09] legitimate enough and bolstered by the
[02:11] very impressive UFO videos it's
[02:13] understandable how the story captured
[02:15] the attention of news agencies and the
[02:18] public
[02:21] worldwide but what they probably didn't
[02:23] know was the dubious history of the cast
[02:27] of characters behind ATP the central
[02:30] figure was Bigalow known to NASA for
[02:33] Bigalow Aerospace but known to the UFO
[02:36] and paranormal communities for
[02:38] Skinwalker Ranch it's a 480 acre
[02:42] property in Utah which Bigalow purchased
[02:44] in
[02:45] 1996 after learning stories of
[02:47] paranormal activities said to happen
[02:50] there cattle mutilations that he
[02:52] believed were the result of alien
[02:54] experimentation UFO sightings ghost
[02:57] lights and transdimensional and
[03:00] shape-shifting beings Bigalow had formed
[03:03] a group he called the National Institute
[03:05] for Discovery science or nidai a group
[03:09] of
[03:12] parasternal apathy and related phenomena
[03:15] he moved them all onto Skinwalker
[03:19] Ranch Bigalow described his position on
[03:22] alien visitation to the TV news program
[03:25] 60 Minutes do you believe in aliens I'm
[03:28] absolutely convinced that's is to it do
[03:30] you also believe that UFOs have come to
[03:33] Earth there has been and is an existing
[03:35] presence an ET presence and I spent
[03:38] millions and millions I probably spent
[03:39] more as an individual than anybody else
[03:41] in the United States has ever spent on
[03:43] this subject do you imagine that in our
[03:47] space travels we will encounter other
[03:49] forms of intelligent life you don't have
[03:51] to go anywhere you can find it here yeah
[03:55] according to newssite politicos analysis
[03:58] of campaign donation records Bigalow was
[04:00] a major donor to Harry Reid his Nevada
[04:03] senator the two were friends it was at
[04:06] Bigelow's urging that Reed approached
[04:08] Stevens into no way and secured the $22
[04:11] million which was then given to Bigalow
[04:15] it was an odd transaction first $22
[04:18] million over 5 years about 360,000 per
[04:22] month accomplishes very little on a
[04:25] governmental scale regardless it's a bit
[04:28] smelly that it was given given to a
[04:30] major donor and friend how Bigalow spent
[04:33] it has not been made public but what has
[04:36] been released is that many of the people
[04:38] Bigalow employed at nidai are the same
[04:41] ones listed as senior researchers for
[04:44] ATP such as engineer and
[04:47] parapsychologist Hal POF one of the
[04:49] people behind project Stargate the cia's
[04:52] failed effort in the 1970s to employ
[04:56] psychic powers for intelligence purposes
[04:59] Putin wrote the proposal to fund atip
[05:02] and used his time there to write 38
[05:04] papers about his ideas for metaphysical
[05:08] SpaceTime Drive systems for spaceships
[05:12] described by physicists as pure pseudo
[05:16] science and now that the ATP program has
[05:19] ended many of these same people are
[05:22] still working together though now under
[05:25] former rock musician Tom dong who in
[05:28] 2015 founded something he calls the to
[05:31] the Stars Academy ttsa it's crowdfunded
[05:35] by selling corporate shares and to date
[05:38] around 3,000 ufologists conspiracy
[05:41] theorists and other enthusiasts have
[05:44] sent money to support tsa's mission of
[05:47] proving an alien presence on earth and
[05:50] the reality of phenomena such as
[05:52] telepathy dong writes that this is
[05:55] necessary because the public interest in
[05:57] the outer edges of science and the
[06:00] understanding of phenomena has always
[06:02] been suffocated by mainstream ideology
[06:05] and bureaucratic constraint it's a theme
[06:09] familiar to skeptoid listeners
[06:11] dismissing disliked science findings as
[06:14] mainstream ideology is a common Gambit
[06:18] of the
[06:20] pseudoscientist biologist Colm kellerer
[06:23] who was the head of nidai for many years
[06:26] studied cattle mutilations and other
[06:28] paranormal phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch
[06:30] until its closure in 2004 then he was
[06:34] the Deputy Administrator for atip from
[06:36] 2008 to 2011 and is now listed as the
[06:40] biotech consultant for
[06:42] ttsa running one's eye down the lists of
[06:45] personnel employed by these programs one
[06:49] could get the impression that this is a
[06:50] single ongoing Enterprise of Hardcore
[06:53] Believers in Alien visitation moving as
[06:56] a group wherever the funding leads them
[06:59] now legally there are no evident
[07:01] corporate connections between Bigelow's
[07:03] nidai Reed's attip and delong's ttsa but
[07:08] in reality they are clearly a single
[07:11] spiritual thread followed by a core of
[07:14] Believers each program begins
[07:16] approximately where its predecessor left
[07:18] off cynical observers might well
[07:22] conclude that atip was little more than
[07:24] Bigelow's successful plan to shift the
[07:28] funding of his personal h hobby studying
[07:30] the Paranormal from his own Pockets to
[07:33] that of the
[07:35] taxpayers even lesle Kean the principal
[07:38] reporter behind the New York Times story
[07:41] has been a part of this ongoing
[07:43] Enterprise for some time having written
[07:45] articles promoting ttsa since at least
[07:48] October
[07:49] 2017 she's also a lifelong promoter of
[07:52] UFOs and the Paranormal having written
[07:54] books on both with such titles as UFOs
[07:58] generals pilot and government officials
[08:00] go on the record and surviving death a
[08:04] journalist investigates evidence for an
[08:08] afterlife the intermingling of UFOs and
[08:11] aliens with paranormal phenomena like
[08:14] telepathy in the afterlife has been a
[08:17] common theme throughout these groups
[08:19] telepathy they believe is how the
[08:21] visiting aliens communicate with us dong
[08:24] made this convoluted statement to paper
[08:27] magazine in 2015
[08:30] a person that was gathering all that
[08:31] footage for the Congressional hearing
[08:34] was telling me that the big belief which
[08:36] I had corroborated by a university
[08:38] Professor that was in the know by the
[08:40] way that the communication of this
[08:43] particular phenomenon is the frequency
[08:45] of thought so part of communicating and
[08:48] making contact is shutting your mind
[08:51] down and being able to project your
[08:55] thoughts elzando is the most cryptic of
[08:58] these personalities
[09:00] his biography from ATP listed roles in
[09:03] intelligence at virtually every National
[09:05] Security Agency you can think of Wired
[09:08] Magazine submitted Freedom of
[09:10] Information Act requests for information
[09:12] about Lando's employment at the Pentagon
[09:15] but they turned up no records at all nor
[09:18] does any Luis elzando appear in an
[09:21] online database of federal employees for
[09:23] that period of time a pentagon
[09:26] spokesperson did confirm only that he
[09:29] had worked for the Department of Defense
[09:31] at some point so it's all very strange
[09:35] Lando's position today is as Tom Dong's
[09:38] personal bodyguard at ttsa though with
[09:41] the grandiloquent title of director of
[09:44] Global
[09:46] Security but of course it's not the
[09:49] people or their backgrounds or beliefs
[09:51] that determine the validity of these
[09:53] claims of alien visitation but rather
[09:56] the evidence itself none of the program
[09:59] discussed have presented any empirical
[10:02] evidence but both atip and ttsa have
[10:06] offered the videos taken from us fighter
[10:08] jets these videos were passed along to
[10:11] the media with the press releases in
[10:13] December
[10:14] 2017 so let's take a look at
[10:18] them the most dramatic of these videos
[10:21] filmed in 2004 by an fa18f fighter plane
[10:25] appears to show a stingray shaped craft
[10:28] banking above of some clouds even making
[10:31] a few turns it's enough to impress
[10:34] almost anyone except of course military
[10:38] Pilots familiar with the characteristics
[10:40] of the Fleer infrared camera it's a bit
[10:43] difficult to explain in an audio program
[10:46] but for an excellent breakdown of
[10:48] exactly what you're seeing and why it
[10:50] looks like a stingray shaped craft
[10:52] turning above some clouds see the
[10:55] article on the metabunk website and
[10:57] you'll find a link to it on the online
[10:58] transcript for this episode at skeptoid
[11:01] tocom in short what's happening is that
[11:04] the stingray shape two roundish wings
[11:07] with a short tail is how any sharp point
[11:10] of heat appears through the glare filter
[11:13] of the Fleer pod mounted to the fighter
[11:15] plane other confirming examples of this
[11:18] shape are widely available online when
[11:21] the craft appears to rotate in the video
[11:23] These movements correspond to the
[11:25] rotation of the gimbal on which the
[11:27] Fleer turns in response to the
[11:29] airplane's Maneuvers the Fleer camera
[11:32] was looking off to the side not straight
[11:35] ahead and the fighter plane was moving
[11:37] past the clouds while the distant point
[11:39] of heat remained stationary most likely
[11:43] a commercial jet headed away from the
[11:45] fighter about 15 M away according to
[11:48] reconstructions the video was simply an
[11:51] effective combination of two commonplace
[11:54] optical
[11:56] illusions if these videos were so e
[11:59] easily explained why then did Alando and
[12:02] ttsa present them as evidence of alien
[12:05] visitation the reason is simply that
[12:08] these people are not very good
[12:09] investigators and certainly not
[12:12] impartial ones astronomer Seth Shak of
[12:15] The seti Institute explained to Business
[12:18] Insider how Bigalow and Dong's people
[12:21] were not the best to analyze these
[12:24] videos if you are investigating some
[12:26] phenomenon that you're not sure whether
[12:28] it's real or not but it would be
[12:29] extraordinarily important if it were
[12:31] real you would want somebody impartial I
[12:34] would think giving this case to somebody
[12:37] who already knows what the answer is is
[12:40] maybe not terribly
[12:42] objective putting an exclamation point
[12:44] on this was another video shown by Tom
[12:47] dong at a ttsa event its explanation was
[12:51] even simpler it was revealed to have
[12:53] been amateur video shot of a metallic
[12:56] foil party balloon in the shape of a
[12:58] number one such as you might buy along
[13:00] with a number two for someone's 21st
[13:03] birthday party this is the investigative
[13:06] Acumen paid for by those who have bought
[13:09] shares in the
[13:11] company so did the pentagon's $22
[13:15] million Advanced Aviation threat
[13:18] identification program Pro that the US
[13:20] government is in contact with alien
[13:23] visitors no but it did prove that US
[13:26] senators are just as susceptible as news
[13:29] reporters and the general public to
[13:32] being persuaded by rhetoric and
[13:34] pseudoscientific sensationalism when
[13:37] expertly wielded by passionate True
[13:45] Believers if you enjoyed this episode
[13:48] you will really enjoy my latest book
[13:51] conspiracies Declassified published by
[13:54] Simon and Schuster we point the
[13:56] skeptical eye at 50 of the most popular
[13:59] conspiracy theories in pop culture the
[14:01] book comes out the first week of June
[14:03] but bookstores decide what books to buy
[14:06] based on pre-order numbers so if you
[14:09] want to make sure that everyone who
[14:11] walks into a Barnes & Noble sees a giant
[14:14] stack of skeptoid goodness right in
[14:16] front of their face when they walk in
[14:18] you can help make it happen by placing
[14:21] an online pre-order for the book at
[14:23] either Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble
[14:26] search for conspiracies d classified by
[14:30] Brian Dunning you will help make the
[14:33] world a less credulous
[14:37] place you're listening to skeptoid a
[14:40] listener supported program I'm Brian
[14:43] Dunning from skeptoid dcom

Summary of the USS Kid Incident

The USS Kid incident, which occurred in July 2019 off the coast of Southern California, involved a series of reported close encounters between several US Navy vessels and unidentified flying objects (UFOs) that were initially believed to be drones. The USS Kid, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer equipped with the Aegis combat system, was at the center of this incident when sailors reported seeing what appeared to be consumer drones hovering near their ship. This was particularly alarming as it is illegal for drones to operate in proximity to Navy vessels, and the sightings occurred significantly farther out to sea than the operational range of typical consumer drones.

The situation escalated over four nights, with multiple reports of these unidentified objects approaching not only the USS Kid but also other Navy vessels and a Carnival Cruise Line ship. This incident has captured the attention of national security experts and UFO enthusiasts alike, leading to speculation about the nature of these unidentified objects.

The geographical context of the incident is critical; the sightings took place near the southern Channel Islands, a busy shipping zone with heavy commercial traffic, including cargo ships and pleasure yachts. The area is also home to several military operations, making the presence of unidentified objects particularly concerning. The USS Kid, equipped with advanced sensors and weaponry, was ideally positioned to detect any potential threats, raising questions about the validity of the reported sightings.

Initial investigations into the incident were prompted by a Navy veteran who contacted UFO researcher Dave Batty, leading to Freedom of Information Act requests that uncovered 462 pages of deck logs from the USS Kid. These logs confirmed that on multiple occasions, sailors reported seeing unidentified aerial vehicles (UAVs). Snoopy teams, composed of sailors with high-end cameras, were deployed to capture images of the objects, although the logs primarily documented visual observations of lights rather than concrete data.

Subsequent FOIA requests revealed similar reports from other Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, indicating that the phenomenon was not isolated to the USS Kid. Notably, a passing Carnival Cruise Ship confirmed that the drones did not originate from their vessel, further complicating the investigation.

Researchers utilized Automatic Identification System (AIS) data to track the movements of the ships involved, providing a clearer picture of the operational environment during the sightings. The reports suggested that the flight times of the observed objects exceeded the capabilities of standard consumer drones, leading to speculation about the involvement of high-end industrial drones or even military UAVs.

Despite the intriguing nature of the sightings, the Navy has stated that no military drones were deployed during the incident. The lack of photographic evidence or radar data in the FOIA responses has left many questions unanswered. The absence of recorded data raises the possibility that the ship's sensors may not have detected the objects, as they are designed to log specific types of targets.

Ultimately, the reports of lights in the sky remain ambiguous. Observers on the ships may have misidentified commercial air traffic or other ordinary lights, as the geometry of distance perception can lead to significant misjudgments. The incident highlights the challenges of interpreting visual observations without supporting data, as the sailors' reports were based solely on their interpretations of lights rather than concrete evidence.

In conclusion, while the USS Kid incident has generated considerable interest and speculation, the available evidence does not substantiate claims of extraterrestrial involvement or military failure. Instead, it underscores the need for more rigorous data collection and analysis in future encounters to draw definitive conclusions. As of now, the incident remains categorized as a UFO report lacking sufficient evidence for further investigation.

The USS Kid incident serves as a focal point in discussions surrounding UFOs and potential alien visitation. This incident unfolded in July 2019 off the Southern California coast, where sailors aboard the USS Kid, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, reported sightings of what were thought to be drones. The reports included observations of lights in the sky that raised concerns about their legality and origin, especially given that the USS Kid was operating far beyond the range of typical consumer drones.

This incident, which involved multiple naval vessels, attracted attention not only from national security experts but also from UFO enthusiasts, who speculated about the possibility of extraterrestrial technology being involved. The narrative surrounding this event has been shaped by the mysterious nature of the sightings, the involvement of military personnel, and the heightened public interest in UFOs due to previous military disclosures on the topic.

Overall, the USS Kid incident highlights the intersection of military operations and public fascination with unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs), which continues to permeate discussions about UFOs in popular culture.

• [01:21] "It has gripped the undivided attention not only of National Security Experts but also of alien visitation and UFO enthusiasts."
• [07:00] "Everything that was reported in the incident was within the capabilities of any party with at least six figures to spend on a fleet of high endurance drones."
• [16:07] "I'm going to set this one down in the column of UFO reports that offer insufficient evidence to warrant further investigation."

The USS Kid incident has a defined timeline that began in July 2019. Over the course of at least four nights, sailors on the USS Kid reported seeing multiple unidentified aerial vehicles (UAVs) near their ship. The initial reports were made by crew members, which subsequently led to investigations involving Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests for military logs and documentation.

Following the incident, the narrative surrounding the event expanded significantly, fueled by media interest and the involvement of amateur researchers. The incident was publicized through various platforms, including articles and social media, which helped propagate theories about what the sightings could represent—ranging from advanced drone technology to extraterrestrial involvement.

As the story evolved, it prompted further analysis and deeper exploration into the capabilities of both consumer and industrial drones. Research into the operational patterns of naval vessels and the commercial air traffic in the region provided additional context to the sightings.

This evolving narrative reflects how initial accounts can lead to broader speculation and investigation, often diverging into various theories regarding military technology and potential threats or misidentifications.

• [03:19] "In 20120 UFO YouTuber Dave Batty was contacted by a Navy veteran who told him that this had happened..."
• [04:47] "Two of them wrote up the event more formally for The Drive website and that became the seminal press report on four different nights in July 2019."
• [16:19] "If the Navy surprises us with more data, nobody will be more pleased than myself to reopen the case."

Key figures in the USS Kid incident include Dave Batty, a UFO YouTuber who played a pivotal role in bringing the incident to light. After being contacted by a Navy veteran, Batty filed FOIA requests that uncovered a substantial amount of information regarding the sightings, including 462 pages of handwritten deck logs from the USS Kid. These logs were instrumental in shaping the narrative and providing context for the reported events.

Additionally, other researchers collaborated with Batty to analyze the logs and synthesize findings, which contributed to the public discourse surrounding the incident. Their efforts were crucial in framing the discussion about the possible implications of the sightings—including misidentification and the potential for advanced drone technology.

While the transcript does not mention specific names of military personnel involved, the sailors aboard the USS Kid and other vessels certainly played a vital role as eyewitnesses, reporting the initial sightings that sparked the investigation. Their testimonies are foundational to understanding the incident as they provide the firsthand accounts that form the basis of the ongoing debate about what truly occurred.

• [03:21] "Batty filed FOIA requests and received 462 pages of handwritten deck logs from the USS Kid."
• [04:39] "Two of them wrote up the event more formally for The Drive website..."
• [01:33] "The incident took place around the southernmost of the Channel Islands..."

Official explanations and counter-evidence regarding the USS Kid incident emphasize the lack of verifiable data supporting the claims of drone sightings. The transcript notes that while sailors reported lights in the sky, much of the evidence relied solely on visual observation. This raises questions about the reliability of the sightings, particularly given the challenges of accurately judging distances and identifying lights at night.

Furthermore, the Navy has stated that no unmanned systems, such as the MQ-8 Fire Scout, were deployed during the incident, despite the ships being involved in exercises with these systems in the same area shortly before. Internal communications from FOIA requests confirmed that no photographs or radar data were available to substantiate the sailors' claims of UFOs.

Additionally, researchers have pointed out that the reported flight times and behaviors of the objects could be explained by high-end industrial drones, which are capable of long endurance flights. The transcript highlights that these observations were consistent with known aircraft activity in the busy airspace above Southern California, where commercial airliners may have appeared as stationary lights to the crew on board the USS Kid.

• [09:05] "The Navy has stated that no such vehicles were deployed during the USS Kid incident..."
• [10:29] "We can't draw any conclusions from the fact that nothing came back from the FOIA requests."
• [14:09] "Misidentification of ordinary lights in the sky explains at least part of this incident."

The construction of a singular conspiracy narrative surrounding the USS Kid incident involves several interconnected local occurrences and the amplification of initial reports. The incident began with sailors on the USS Kid reporting unidentified aerial vehicles, which quickly garnered attention and led to further investigations. As more vessels in the area reported similar sightings, a pattern emerged that suggested a coordinated effort or a significant threat.

Key to this narrative is the involvement of multiple naval ships, such as the USS Raphael Peralta, USS Russell, and others, that also reported seeing drones. These reports were interconnected through shared concerns about illegal drone activity in a high-security maritime zone. Furthermore, the Carnival Cruise Line ship that reported seeing drones added to the narrative by confirming visual sightings, thereby lending credibility to the claims.

However, as research progressed, analysts began to connect these sightings with commercial air traffic in the region, suggesting that the reported drones might have been misidentified aircraft. The linking of various reports from different ships contributed to a sense of urgency and conspiracy, but further investigation revealed that many of the sightings could be explained through mundane explanations, including commercial airliners appearing as stationary lights.

• [01:12] "As many as several of these apparently superpowered drones may have been involved approaching as many as four US Navy vessels in the area..."
• [05:16] "Logs included a note referring to a passing Carnival Cruise Ship..."
• [14:38] "The ship's reported location was directly under the Pacific approach to Southern California airports..."

[00:00] [Music]
[00:03] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:05] Dunning from skeptoid decom the
[00:09] 2019 USS kid
[00:13] incident on a series of warm summer
[00:15] nights off the coast of Southern
[00:17] California half a dozen ships had a
[00:19] close encounter that raised alarm Bells
[00:22] all the way up the chain of command in
[00:24] the United States Navy it began when
[00:26] sailors aboard the USS kid and Arley
[00:29] Burk class destroyer equipped with the
[00:31] egis combat system spotted what appeared
[00:34] to be a consumer drone like the one kids
[00:38] might fly over your neighborhood near
[00:40] their Ship by itself that's kind of a
[00:43] big deal it's illegal to fly over or
[00:45] near a Navy ship and the kid was located
[00:48] about 10 times farther out to sea than
[00:51] such drones can go and the object stayed
[00:54] around for at least three times as long
[00:56] as drone batteries last but where a big
[01:00] deal turned into a gigantic deal was
[01:02] that over the course of at least four
[01:04] nights as many as several of these
[01:07] apparently superpowered drones may have
[01:09] been involved approaching as many as
[01:12] four US Navy vessels in the area plus a
[01:15] Carnival Cruise Line ship it's become
[01:17] known as the USS kid incident and it has
[01:21] gripped the undivided attention not only
[01:23] of National Security Experts but also of
[01:26] alien visitation and UFO enthusiasts
[01:32] the incident took place around the
[01:33] southern most of the Channel Islands an
[01:36] extraordinarily busy shipping Zone
[01:38] there's a huge amount of commercial
[01:40] shipping stopping at Los Angeles
[01:42] countless pleasure Yachts from Southern
[01:44] California are constantly coming and
[01:46] going from Catalina Island fishing boats
[01:48] are everywhere day and night and it's
[01:52] one of the busiest patches of ocean on
[01:54] the planet for Naval operations Camp
[01:57] Pendleton occupies much of the coast
[01:59] where this took place where Marines and
[02:01] the Navy practice ship to shore
[02:03] operations Naval Amphibious based
[02:05] Coronado is where you'll find Navy Seals
[02:08] doing their thing but mostly Naval Base
[02:11] San Diego is one of the homes of the
[02:13] Pacific Fleet with around 200 ships
[02:16] including aircraft carriers and a lot of
[02:19] nuclear submarines I grew up sailing
[02:22] these Waters and have had personal
[02:23] encounters with submarines including one
[02:25] pretty close shave so believe me when I
[02:28] tell you these are busy Waters
[02:31] containing a lot of Firepower that
[02:34] anyone would choose this area to
[02:36] antagonize the world's most capable
[02:38] Destroyer equipped with the world's most
[02:41] sensitive sensors is eyebrow raising to
[02:43] say the very least if this is in fact
[02:47] what happened it was either unspeakably
[02:50] bold or unspeakably
[02:54] foolish the first thing we want to do in
[02:56] a case such as this is verify whether
[02:58] what's reported is is actually what
[03:01] happened because until we've taken that
[03:03] first basic step we have no idea whether
[03:07] drones were involved at all or birds or
[03:10] stars or nothing we can start with
[03:12] learning where the story came from in
[03:15] 20120 UFO YouTuber Dave batty was
[03:19] contacted by a Navy veteran who told him
[03:21] that this had happened and batty filed
[03:23] foyer requests Freedom of Information
[03:25] Act and received
[03:27] 462 pages of hand written deck logs from
[03:31] the USS kid he shared these with other
[03:34] UFO and alien researchers and they
[03:36] uncovered the basic facts of the story
[03:39] two of them wrote up the event more
[03:41] formally for the drive website and that
[03:44] became the seminal press
[03:47] report on four different nights in July
[03:51] 2019 the kid was approached by one to
[03:55] multiple objects described in the logs
[03:58] as uavs un and aerial Vehicles Snoopy
[04:02] teams were deployed which are certain
[04:03] Sailors detailed to grab high-end
[04:06] consumer cameras and photograph whatever
[04:08] they could on one occasion Mark 87 teams
[04:12] were stationed probably referring to an
[04:15] electro Optical sighting system used for
[04:18] optical tracking and weapons control it
[04:20] Bears repeating that this happened
[04:22] aboard a destroyer with the Eis combat
[04:25] system literally the world's most
[04:27] advanced platform capable of tracking
[04:30] and destroying inbound objects using
[04:33] multiple classified and unclassified
[04:35] sensor systems if anything was indeed
[04:38] out there the best bet is that the Navy
[04:41] has every bit of data on it that was
[04:43] detectable including whatever radio
[04:46] signals it may have been transmitting or
[04:48] receiving however the sailor's reports
[04:51] were based on nothing more than visual
[04:53] observation of lights and given how
[04:56] trivial it is to disable lights on a
[04:58] drone this means that whoever was
[05:01] responsible for the lights wanted to be
[05:05] seen the drive made additional Foya
[05:08] requests and received deck logs from
[05:10] four more Arley Burke class destroyers
[05:13] which made similar reports the USS
[05:16] Raphael Peralta USS Russell USS John
[05:20] Finn and USS Paul Hamilton logs included
[05:24] a note referring to a passing Carnival
[05:26] Cruise Ship Carnival Imagination hailed
[05:29] the Raphael Peralta on channel 16 to
[05:32] notify that drones did not originate
[05:34] from their ship confirmed 5 to six
[05:37] drones within their site independent
[05:40] researchers went online and traced the
[05:42] movements of all these ships plus others
[05:45] that were mentioned in the incident
[05:46] including various vessel tracking
[05:48] websites ships use a system called AIS
[05:52] automatic identification system that
[05:54] uses Coastal radio plus satellites to
[05:57] track and identify ships that use it in
[05:59] a busy place like Southern California
[06:02] tankers and container ships and cruise
[06:04] ships are all using AIS to avoid running
[06:07] into each other AIS is required on
[06:10] passenger ships and All Ships above a
[06:13] certain size but it's also expensive and
[06:17] the vast majority of vessels that aren't
[06:19] required to use it don't Navy ships will
[06:22] almost always use it in hi trffic areas
[06:25] but they can turn it off whenever they
[06:26] want to regardless the researchers were
[06:29] able to put together a detailed picture
[06:32] of where and when the Drone reports
[06:34] occurred combining the deck Logs with
[06:37] the public AIS
[06:39] data most reporting of this story has
[06:42] stated that the flight time exhibited by
[06:44] these objects around 90 minutes on
[06:46] station plus whatever time it took to
[06:48] come and go from their point of origin
[06:51] greatly exceeds the capabilities of
[06:52] commercially available drones and this
[06:54] is only true of the majority of consumer
[06:57] grade electric drones but the market
[07:00] also includes industrial high endurance
[07:03] drones used for such purposes as
[07:05] inspections search and rescue security
[07:08] aerial surveying and mapping and
[07:11] agriculture flight times of over 5 hours
[07:14] and ranges over 200 kilm have been
[07:17] available for some time at a price of
[07:20] course some use gas electric Hybrid
[07:23] Power some use rotary gas engines High
[07:27] payload capacities allow all such crafts
[07:29] to carry auxiliary fuel tanks to extend
[07:31] their endurance even further so by no
[07:35] means is it necessary to introduce
[07:37] military involvement either foreign or
[07:40] domestic to fully explain the USS kid
[07:44] incident everything that was reported in
[07:46] the incident was within the capabilities
[07:49] of any party with at least six figures
[07:52] to spend on a fleet of high endurance
[07:56] drones if you do want to introduce
[07:58] military involvement look no further
[08:01] than the US Navy's own mq8 fire Scout an
[08:05] unmanned helicopter about the size of an
[08:07] average two- seat helicopter its turbo
[08:10] shaft motor gives it a combat radius of
[08:12] 110 nautical miles with over 4 hours on
[08:16] station and being a helicopter it's
[08:19] quite capable of mimicking the exact
[08:21] behavior that Sailors may have
[08:22] interpreted as a drone in April 2021 the
[08:27] Navy held an exercise called un Grand
[08:29] integrated battle problem 21 in this
[08:33] same patch of ocean involving many of
[08:35] these same ships it included unmanned
[08:38] surface ships unmanned undersea vehicles
[08:41] and both the mq8 and mq9 sea Guardian a
[08:46] high-speed fixed Wing unmanned jet these
[08:49] are systems that Navy personnel are
[08:51] familiar with and that they work with
[08:53] however the Navy has stated that no such
[08:56] Vehicles were deployed during the USS
[08:58] kid incident and internal Communications
[09:01] provided in foyer requests confirm that
[09:05] but what's just as interesting is what
[09:07] did not come back in response to the
[09:09] foyer requests there were no photographs
[09:12] and of course nothing like any radar
[09:14] data or confirmation hardly surprising
[09:17] since egis system capabilities are
[09:20] classified any hard data the ships may
[09:23] have recorded about any drone incursions
[09:24] on those nights is almost certainly
[09:27] classified however we would be
[09:29] intellectually dishonest as well as
[09:31] scientifically unreasonable if we did
[09:34] not allow for another possibility that
[09:37] no such data was
[09:39] recorded let's Riff on this let's say
[09:43] the ship sensors found nothing was out
[09:45] there first not much can be concluded
[09:47] from that radar systems record only the
[09:49] types of targets they are designed to
[09:51] record many types of commercial radar
[09:54] would not key off of something on the
[09:56] scale of a multi-rotor drone and others
[09:58] would
[09:59] modern systems that log their targets
[10:01] digitally Only log the types of targets
[10:04] they are programmed to log what the egis
[10:07] systems would do with a drone nearby is
[10:10] known only to those with clearance we
[10:12] don't know so we can't use this as an
[10:15] indicator either way the same goes for
[10:17] radio signals that might be used to
[10:19] control remotely piloted drones or to
[10:22] return their video signals encrypted or
[10:24] not the egis system would know the
[10:26] signal was there but we don't
[10:29] so we can't draw any conclusions from
[10:32] the fact that nothing came back from the
[10:34] foyer
[10:36] requests the only thing we know for sure
[10:39] is that humans saw lights in the sky
[10:42] that they interpreted as drones however
[10:45] we're not given enough information to
[10:46] know why they thought this the drones
[10:49] were only reported off to the side never
[10:52] above the ships with one exception a
[10:55] single report in the logs of a single
[10:57] white light above the ship Flight Deck
[11:00] from the perspective of the Observer was
[11:03] this immediately above the flight deck
[11:04] or 10 Mi away Along the same line of
[11:07] site but we don't know that either once
[11:10] a red flashing light was reported
[11:12] consistent with the lights on consumer
[11:14] drones and on all aircraft that's the
[11:17] total extent of details
[11:21] provided it always Bears repeating that
[11:24] an observer on the ground cannot
[11:26] reliably judge the distance of a light
[11:28] in the sky this is a universal
[11:31] limitation imposed by geometry without a
[11:34] triangulated reference there's no way to
[11:37] visually judge how far away a point of
[11:40] light is this is not an ability that
[11:42] training can develop or improve in an
[11:45] observer there is no such thing as a
[11:48] trained Observer with the ability to
[11:50] circumvent geometry we need more data
[11:54] and we got none in this
[11:57] case a light in the sky is by far the
[12:01] most common type of UFO report they
[12:03] almost always remain
[12:05] unidentified because of the reasons just
[12:07] given even the best documented such
[12:10] report is unfortunately uselessly vague
[12:14] was something there or was it a
[12:16] misidentification of a mundane aircraft
[12:19] Star Planet helicopter drone or who
[12:23] knows what
[12:25] else I wasn't there and I have no access
[12:28] to whatever dat may have been recorded
[12:30] about these sightings beyond the public
[12:32] deck logs so take the following with a
[12:34] grain of salt here are my possible
[12:37] explanations for the USS kid
[12:40] incident number one high-end industrial
[12:44] or military multi-rotor or fixed wi uavs
[12:48] operated by some unknown deep pocketed
[12:51] party from Shore or from any of the
[12:53] great majority of anonymous boats in the
[12:56] area not using
[12:58] AIS motives include enormous stupidity
[13:01] coupled with a death wish a prank actual
[13:05] foreign intelligence to probe arly Burke
[13:07] reactions the Navy trying to gauge how
[13:10] its own people would react to an mq8 and
[13:13] other motives I haven't
[13:16] guessed number two misidentification of
[13:19] surface targets as no evidence was
[13:22] logged indicating that anyone saw
[13:24] anything above the Horizon keeping in
[13:27] mind the Horizon is not discernable at
[13:29] night and keeping in mind the ships the
[13:31] Witnesses were on were moving meaning no
[13:34] lights in the sky could be determined to
[13:36] be moving or
[13:39] stationary number three
[13:41] misidentification of unremarkable lights
[13:44] in the sky someone saw one reported it
[13:47] then everyone became jumpy about every
[13:49] light they noticed in the busy Southern
[13:52] California Sky after all our news has
[13:54] been full of overblown reports about
[13:57] UFOs from the Navy for years so this
[14:01] possibility should be given more weight
[14:03] than most are inclined
[14:06] to we do in fact know for certain that
[14:09] misidentification of ordinary lights in
[14:11] the sky explains at least part of this
[14:14] incident one of the most frenzied drone
[14:16] reports came from the USS Russell on
[14:19] July 15th at least eight drones were
[14:22] reported west southwest of their
[14:24] position between 9:00 p.m. and 10 p.m.
[14:28] writing on the meta bunk website
[14:30] researcher Mick West found the ship's
[14:32] reported location was directly under the
[14:36] Pacific approach to Southern California
[14:38] airports and inputting that time and
[14:40] location into the flight aare website he
[14:43] found a line of incoming airliners
[14:46] heading directly toward and overflying
[14:49] the ship from Russell's perspective they
[14:52] would have appeared as stationary
[14:54] hovering lights West even referenced a
[14:57] similar case of misidentification from
[14:59] Colorado in 2020 When a sheriff mistook
[15:03] an oncoming 737 at 23,000 ft for a drone
[15:07] hovering at 500 ft again recall that no
[15:11] amount of observation training can
[15:14] circumvent geometry no Observer trained
[15:18] or otherwise can reliably determine the
[15:21] distance of a single point of light in
[15:23] the
[15:24] sky and that
[15:27] unsatisfyingly is where we have to leave
[15:29] our investigation of this event the only
[15:32] part of it that we can identify with the
[15:34] data in hand has been identified as
[15:37] commercial air traffic and all the rest
[15:39] of the data lacks sufficient details to
[15:42] rule out any more of the same we cannot
[15:45] make any claim that all the sailors saw
[15:47] were aircraft and other normal lights
[15:49] and we also can't make any claim that
[15:51] such lights are inconsistent with the
[15:53] rest of the recorded sightings and so
[15:56] with apologies to those who insist that
[15:58] the US kid incident must be either proof
[16:01] of our military's failure to defend
[16:03] itself or proof of alien visitation I'm
[16:07] going to set this one down in the column
[16:09] of UFO reports that offer insufficient
[16:12] evidence to Warrant further
[16:14] investigation if the Navy surprises us
[16:17] with more data nobody will be more
[16:19] pleased than myself to reopen the
[16:27] case and who else will be pleased why
[16:30] skeptoid premium supporters of course
[16:32] such as Harry Hooper from canura
[16:35] Australia Mark Allen Kagan Steve
[16:38] Williams from New South Wales Australia
[16:41] and Adrien Potter remember we always do
[16:44] our best to publish any corrections so
[16:47] if you find an error in any skeptoid
[16:49] episode come to skeptoid
[16:52] docomo to report it and I'll include it
[16:55] in an upcoming Corrections episode also
[16:57] every skeptoid episode has a transcript
[17:00] page at skeptoid dcom with complete
[17:03] bibliographic references and further
[17:06] reading suggestions and they also print
[17:08] out into nicely formatted PDF documents
[17:11] that you can
[17:13] [Music]
[17:14] share you're listening to skeptoid a
[17:17] listener supported program I'm Brian
[17:19] Dunning from skeptoid decom

Introduction to the Malmstrom UFO Incident
On March 16, 1967, an extraordinary event occurred at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana, where missile officers experienced a sudden failure of ten nuclear missiles. The incident, which Lieutenant Robert Solace was involved in, has since been linked to unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and has been referenced in discussions about national security threats posed by such phenomena. The narrative surrounding this incident has evolved over the years, particularly following the publication of a book by Solace and James Clotz in 2005, which brought renewed attention to the case.

Details of the Incident
On that fateful morning, missile officers were in their underground launch control centers when all ten warning lights indicating missile readiness went blank. Solace was alerted by a call from the topside security team, who reported seeing strange lights in the sky, including a red one hovering nearby. This alarming situation led to the belief that a UFO had somehow disabled the missiles. The incident was later cited in congressional hearings as evidence of potential threats to national security.

Research and Documentation
The primary source of information about this incident comes from Solace's book, which was based on a Freedom of Information Act request that sought documentation regarding the missile malfunctions. However, the official records produced in response did not corroborate Solace's account. Instead, they detailed a similar incident at Echo Flight, which raised questions about the accuracy of Solace's memories regarding the Oscar Flight incident.

Contradictions and Investigations
The discrepancies between Solace's recollections and the official documentation highlight a significant issue. While Solace insists that he was at Oscar Flight when the missiles went down, the records only mention Echo Flight. This contradiction suggests that Solace may have conflated different events or misremembered details over time. The investigation into the Echo Flight incident revealed that the missile failures were likely caused by a brief power outage due to a transformer failure at a local power station, which led to a temporary reboot of the missile systems.

UFO Sightings and Public Perception
Despite the lack of evidence linking UFOs to the missile shutdowns, the narrative persisted, fueled by subsequent UFO sightings in the area. Notably, a UFO sighting was reported in Belt, Montana, eight days after the Echo Flight incident, which Solace later associated with his own experiences. This connection, however, is tenuous at best, as there is no documented evidence to support the idea that UFOs were involved in the missile incidents.

Conclusion: The Importance of Accurate Historical Record
Ultimately, the Malmstrom incident serves as a cautionary tale about the reliability of memory and the importance of corroborating evidence. While Solace's intentions may have been to highlight a potential threat to national security, the actual records indicate that the missile failures were due to commonplace technical issues rather than extraterrestrial interference. This case underscores the necessity for critical examination of claims regarding UFOs and their alleged impacts on national security, particularly when such claims are used to inform policy decisions.

Final Thoughts
The discussion surrounding the Malmstrom UFO incident illustrates the complexities of human memory and the potential for misinterpretation of events over time. As we analyze historical accounts, it is crucial to rely on documented evidence and maintain a skeptical perspective to avoid drawing unfounded conclusions about national security threats.

The core myth or narrative of alien visitation promoted in the transcript revolves around an incident that allegedly occurred on March 16, 1967, at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana. During this event, missile officers, particularly Lieutenant Robert Solace, reported that all ten missiles in the Oscar flight were deactivated simultaneously, leading to speculation that a UFO was responsible for the shutdown. This narrative has been cited in the context of national security, suggesting that UFOs possess the capability to disable nuclear weapons, thus posing a significant threat.

As the story gained traction, it was further popularized by authors like James Clz and Robert Hastings, who emphasized Solace's account in their respective books, including Faded Giant and UFOs and Nukes. The incident's association with UFOs has been a recurring theme in discussions about national security, particularly in congressional hearings, where it has been framed as evidence of extraterrestrial threats.

• [01:11] 'An entire Flight of the United States nuclear Arsenal had been disabled apparently by a UFO.'
• [01:19] 'This incident has been cited in the US House of Representatives hearings declaring UFOs a threat to National Security.'
• [13:19] '...no such thing ever happened...'

The chronological timeline of the events surrounding the Malmstrom UFO incident begins on March 16, 1967, when missile officers reported that all ten missiles in the Oscar flight were deactivated. This incident was initially met with little public attention until 2005, when Lieutenant Robert Solace and James Clz released the book Faded Giant, which brought the story into the public sphere. Following this, in 2008, Robert Hastings included the account in his book UFOs and Nukes, further expanding the narrative's reach.

As the years passed, various claims emerged suggesting that UFOs were responsible for multiple missile shutdowns. Solace himself speculated that another incident occurred on or about March 24, 1967, a full eight days after the initial event. This claim, however, contradicts official Air Force records, which only acknowledge the shutdown at Echo flight on March 16.

By 2010, Solace attempted to gather corroborating statements from colleagues, but many of their memories did not align with his narrative. This inconsistency highlights how narratives evolve over time, often becoming intertwined with personal recollections and broader cultural phenomena surrounding UFOs.

• [10:00] 'Later in 2010 Solace went back to some of his colleagues from 1967 and asked for statements describing what they remembered.'
• [09:25] 'According to the best history he and Clz were able to cobble together, the flight incident was on March 16th and the UFO caused Oscar flight incident he remembers must have been on or about March 24th.'
• [01:28] 'Today we’re going to look into the Malmstrom UFO case of 1967 and see whether Congress did their homework properly or not.'

Key figures in the Malmstrom UFO incident narrative include Lieutenant Robert Solace, who served as a missile officer at Malmstrom Air Force Base during the events of March 16, 1967. Solace is the primary source for the UFO connection, as he reported that all ten missiles under his command were deactivated at the same time, which he attributed to a UFO sighting. His account has been foundational in promoting the idea that UFOs can interfere with nuclear weapon systems.

Another significant figure is James Clz, who co-authored the book Faded Giant with Solace, which popularized the incident. Their collaboration has been instrumental in framing the narrative within the UFO community. Additionally, Robert Hastings, a ufologist, included this incident in his works, notably UFOs and Nukes, emphasizing the potential threat posed by unidentified aerial phenomena.

Both Solace and Hastings have maintained that their accounts are factual and represent genuine national security concerns, although their conclusions have been met with skepticism from various sectors. Their involvement has significantly shaped the public perception of the incident and contributed to ongoing discussions about UFOs and national security.

• [01:43] 'The story comes from the 2005 book Faded Giant self-published by James Clz and Robert Solace.'
• [02:19] 'Since then Hastings and Solace have both promoted the story as factually true and representing an authentic national security threat.'
• [02:51] 'My conclusion is that he’s been honestly mistaken...'

Specific, verified counter-evidence to debunk the myth surrounding the Malmstrom UFO incident is rooted in official documentation and investigations conducted by the Air Force following the reported shutdown of missiles on March 16, 1967. The Air Force records indicate that the missiles' shutdown at Echo flight was due to a common commercial power failure caused by a transformer short at the Fergus Electric Company’s substation. This outage led to a transient fault that affected the missile systems, but all ten missiles rebooted automatically within a short time frame, ranging from 10 to 40 seconds, a situation deemed not unusual.

Moreover, the investigation revealed that there was no evidence of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) or any other unexplained power surge responsible for the missile failures. Despite initial concerns, tests conducted by Boeing found no damage consistent with an EMP, and the investigation concluded that the shutdown was related to a power spike that was ultimately a normal operational occurrence.

Additionally, comprehensive reviews of the official logs and records do not mention any incidents at Oscar flight, contradicting Solace's claims. Instead, they solely reference the Echo flight incident, further undermining the UFO narrative.

• [05:12] '...all 10 missiles were in an LF no-go condition...'
• [06:14] 'In fact, there were several miscellaneous issues noted at the various Echo flight facilities...'
• [13:16] '...the fact is it simply did not happen...'

The narrative surrounding the Malmstrom UFO incident illustrates how separate, unrelated occurrences can be stitched together to create a singular conspiracy narrative. Initially, on March 16, 1967, there was a documented power failure affecting the Echo flight missiles, which led to their temporary shutdown. This event is substantiated by official records that detail the nature of the power outage and the subsequent automatic reboot of the missiles.

However, over time, this factual incident became conflated with reports of UFO sightings. Solace and Clz later linked the shutdown of the missiles to a UFO incident, despite the absence of corroborating evidence. Furthermore, an unrelated UFO sighting occurred in Belt, Montana, approximately 50 kilometers away, on March 24, 1967, a full eight days after the missile incident. Solace retroactively connected these two events, asserting that both were part of a broader pattern of UFO interference with nuclear systems.

This phenomenon of linking disparate events can often lead to the creation of compelling narratives; however, in this case, the lack of direct evidence tying the UFO sightings to the missile shutdown raises significant questions about the validity of the claims. The narrative has since evolved, influenced by media and public interest, further complicating the historical accuracy of the incidents.

• [09:10] 'According to various local newspapers there was a UFO sighting in the town of Belt Montana about 50 kilometers from Malmstrom Air Force Base on March 24th...'
• [09:25] '...the UFO caused Oscar flight incident he remembers must have been on or about March 24th.'
• [12:30] '...confused his memories with one another.'

[00:00] [Music]
[00:03] you're listening to skeptoid I'm Brian
[00:05] Dunning from skeptoid decom the day the
[00:09] UFO deactivated the
[00:12] nukes just before 8:45 on an icy morning
[00:16] March 16th
[00:18] 1967 missile officers at Malmstrom Air
[00:20] Force Base in Montana were all snug in
[00:23] their underground launch control centers
[00:25] some asleep others on duty and perhaps
[00:28] enjoying a hot coffee all were ready to
[00:30] do their job and launch their missiles
[00:32] should the call come in which luckily it
[00:35] never did but this was not to be the
[00:37] ordinary quiet Shift Lieutenant Robert
[00:40] Solace was the one at the console and
[00:42] one by one 10 warning lights
[00:44] representing the 10 missles of Oscar
[00:46] flight all blanked on he scrambled to
[00:49] his feet and just as he was waking his
[00:51] partner a phone call came in it was his
[00:54] topside security team they said there
[00:56] were strange lights flying around with a
[00:58] red one hovering right outside their
[01:00] gate well Solus had no time for that as
[01:03] all 10 of his missiles were giving a
[01:05] nogo signal an entire Flight of the
[01:08] United States nuclear Arsenal had been
[01:11] disabled apparently by a UFO and now 55
[01:15] years later this incident has been cited
[01:18] in the US House of Representatives
[01:19] hearings declaring UFOs a threat to
[01:22] National Security with the ability to
[01:25] shut down our nuclear weapons today
[01:27] we're going to look into the Malmstrom
[01:29] UFO case of
[01:31] 1967 and see whether Congress did their
[01:34] homework properly or
[01:37] not the story comes from the 2005 book
[01:40] faded giant self-published by James clz
[01:43] and Robert Solace that same officer who
[01:46] is the primary source for the entire
[01:48] event solace's story had received
[01:51] scattered mentions through the UFO
[01:52] literature prior to the publication of
[01:54] his book as he'd certainly talked about
[01:56] it but it wasn't until his book came out
[01:58] that the incident received wider
[02:00] attention that attention was magnified
[02:03] just a few years later in 2008 when
[02:05] ufologist Robert Hastings included the
[02:08] story in his book UFOs and nukes
[02:11] extraordinary encounters at nuclear
[02:13] weapons sites since then Hastings and
[02:16] Solace have both promoted the story as
[02:19] factually true and representing an
[02:22] authentic national security
[02:25] threat notice I say that as if the story
[02:28] is a little bit dubious well that's
[02:31] because it is however at this point I
[02:34] want to insert a very important
[02:36] disclaimer I spend a lot of time on the
[02:38] research for this episode including
[02:40] reading as much of solace's book as I
[02:42] could and a lot of other stuff my
[02:44] disclaimer is that in my opinion Bob
[02:47] Solace has been completely honest in his
[02:49] reporting of this incident my conclusion
[02:51] is that he's been honestly mistaken in
[02:54] piecing together certain memories and
[02:56] also believe he's become invested in his
[02:57] version of the recollection and his a on
[03:00] the side of confirmation bias in certain
[03:02] instances as do we all so please do not
[03:05] mistake anything in this episode as
[03:07] charging him with dishonesty or with any
[03:09] motivations other than protecting the
[03:11] United States and its National Security
[03:13] any person can hold those values and
[03:15] also believe in Alien visitation and
[03:18] also conflate memories in fact many of
[03:21] us
[03:23] do much of Solace and cl's book consists
[03:26] of the response to a 2001 Freedom of
[03:28] Information Act request asking for all
[03:32] documents pertaining to a March 16th
[03:35] 1967 incident in which there was a
[03:37] malfunction of missile silos at your
[03:39] installation please include all
[03:41] documentation of procedures after this
[03:44] incident occurred the possible cause
[03:46] procedures on how to handle the
[03:48] situation Etc please include documents
[03:51] letters tapes audio and video tapes
[03:53] memos and all other forms of written and
[03:56] visual media note the requesters use of
[03:59] the term silos a word used by civilians
[04:02] but never by anyone who knows anything
[04:04] about the Air
[04:06] Force the response consists of five
[04:09] quarterly logs of the 341st Strategic
[04:12] missile Wing history detailing the
[04:14] investigation of the faults in the
[04:15] missiles that went
[04:17] offline however there's a big problem
[04:20] while Solace recalls that he was working
[04:22] at Oscar flight when his missiles all
[04:24] went down the documents produced don't
[04:27] include a single mention of Oscar they
[04:30] talk only about a seemingly identical
[04:32] failure at Echo
[04:35] flight in faded giant Solace
[04:37] acknowledges this contradiction because
[04:40] of conflicting memories of some of the
[04:42] principles some uncertainty exists
[04:44] whether in fact the Eko and Oscar flight
[04:47] missile shutdown incidents occurred on
[04:49] the same morning or on different days
[04:51] within a short time the official Wing
[04:53] history and other contemporary documents
[04:56] don't address this matter as only
[04:58] shutdowns at Echo flight are
[05:00] mentioned so we've got a bit of a
[05:03] problem with solace's account but let's
[05:05] move on the documents go into tremendous
[05:08] detail about what happened to Echo
[05:10] flight when Solus saw the warning lights
[05:12] on his console what was indicated was
[05:15] that all 10 missiles were in an LF no-go
[05:18] condition this means that the launch
[05:19] facility is unable to deliver its
[05:21] ordinance onto the intended target for
[05:24] any of a million possible reasons how
[05:27] long was this the case here's what it
[05:29] said
[05:30] in screening the crew it was determined
[05:32] that the loss of strategic alert and
[05:33] fault indication occurred in an
[05:36] extremely short period of time the exact
[05:39] time estimates could not be obtained but
[05:41] the time interval was estimated to be
[05:43] between 10 to 40
[05:45] seconds that's about how long it took
[05:47] for a Minute Man 2 to restart itself
[05:49] which was not unheard of and would
[05:51] happen automatically at which time the
[05:53] warning lights all went out and
[05:55] everything was back to normal and the
[05:57] report went on to note that this was not
[05:59] not considered unusual the only unusual
[06:03] events noted were the failure of the
[06:04] secondary Door Actuator motor at launch
[06:07] facility echo2 and the intermittent
[06:09] operation of the diesel generator at
[06:11] launch facility Echo 8 in fact there
[06:14] were several miscellaneous issues noted
[06:16] at the various Echo flight facilities
[06:18] all pertaining to the power from the
[06:20] local commercial Power Station Fergus
[06:22] electric company which advised that
[06:24] they'd had a Transformer short at their
[06:26] wif substation that serviced Echo flight
[06:30] this brief outage caused all the launch
[06:32] facilities to automatically fire up
[06:34] their diesel
[06:36] generators Boeing The Constructor of the
[06:39] Minuteman 2 found that this outage
[06:41] something often accompanied by a spike
[06:43] or surge coincided with the noise coming
[06:46] through the c53 D logic coupler
[06:49] interface line which could cause a
[06:51] transient fault at the launch facility
[06:54] what could cause this kind of noise two
[06:56] causes were suggested an EMP El magnetic
[07:00] pulse basically a bolt of lightning or
[07:02] other power surge or simple
[07:05] electrostatic noise some 200 panels at
[07:08] malstrom's launch facilities were given
[07:10] engineering inspections and no damage
[07:13] consistent with an EMP was found Boeing
[07:16] attempted to recreate the failures by
[07:17] doing EMP tests subjecting the systems
[07:20] to simulated lightning strikes but all
[07:23] the tests produced negative results it
[07:25] was found that a line called the
[07:27] sensitive information Network could
[07:29] transmit the same noise to all 10
[07:31] missiles in the flight thus explaining
[07:34] why all 10 and no other missiles outside
[07:37] echolight were affected in the end all
[07:40] Boeing and the Air Force could say was
[07:42] that Echo flight experienced quote some
[07:45] type of adverse power
[07:48] effect to summarize the entire event
[07:51] Fergus electric blew a Transformer a
[07:54] power Spike followed by an outage sent
[07:57] noise to one or more Echo Flight launch
[07:59] facilities
[08:00] which then spread it to all the other
[08:01] missiles in the flight all of which
[08:03] rebooted automatically as they were
[08:05] designed to but giving the young
[08:07] Lieutenant Solace the scare of his
[08:10] life but as far as UFOs go there's only
[08:13] a single mention in the entire document
[08:15] of anything like UFOs or lights or
[08:18] strange things in the sky rumors of
[08:21] unidentified flying objects around the
[08:23] area of echo flight during the time of
[08:25] fault were disproven a mobile Strike
[08:28] Team which had checked all November
[08:30] flights launch facilities on the morning
[08:32] of 16 March
[08:33] 1967 were questioned and stated that no
[08:36] unusual activity or sightings were
[08:39] observed period so whatever Solace was
[08:42] remembering from all those decades ago
[08:45] the records of the wing remembered it
[08:49] differently but if the UFOs form such a
[08:52] ubiquitous part of the story why was it
[08:54] that nobody had reported anything
[08:56] unusual on that night because it hadn't
[08:58] happened yet yet and wouldn't for more
[09:00] than a week Solace and clots did track
[09:03] it down according to various local
[09:05] newspapers there was a UFO sighting in
[09:08] the town of Belt Montana about 50
[09:10] kilomet from Malmstrom Air Force Base on
[09:13] March 24th 8 days after the echo flight
[09:18] incident because of the discrepancy of
[09:20] those eight days Solace decided that
[09:23] that must be the date he remembered so
[09:25] according to the best history he and
[09:27] clot were able to Cobble together the
[09:29] flight incident was on March 16th and
[09:32] the UFO caused Oscar flight incident he
[09:35] remembers must have been on or about
[09:37] March 24th therefore according to Solace
[09:41] there was not one but two incidents
[09:43] where UFOs shut down missiles just over
[09:46] a week apart all existing Air Force
[09:49] records say no there was just one
[09:52] incident at Eko on the 16th and no UFOs
[09:56] were
[09:57] involved later in 2010 Solace went back
[10:00] to some of his colleagues from 1967 and
[10:03] asked for statements describing what
[10:05] they remembered but what he received
[10:07] were vague non-committal second or third
[10:10] hand and written from 43-year-old
[10:12] memories tainted by The Faded Giant and
[10:15] UFOs and nukes books both having been
[10:17] out for years two others missile
[10:20] officers Captain Eric Carlson and
[10:22] Lieutenant Walter figel had strongly
[10:24] worded replies once the book came out
[10:27] Carlson said I've talked to newspaper
[10:29] writer in Great Falls several years ago
[10:32] and a TV producers from one of those UFO
[10:34] shows with both these individuals I
[10:37] denied any knowledge of any UFOs at
[10:39] Malmstrom in addition I stated that
[10:42] there was no repeat no incident at Oscar
[10:45] flight AS Solace maintains my memory is
[10:48] quite good regarding the events at
[10:50] Malmstrom and there's no doubt in my
[10:52] mind that there were no reports of UFOs
[10:54] and no incident at Oscar flight and
[10:57] figel said I do not personally believe
[11:00] that UFOs had anything to do with Echo
[11:03] flight shutting down that year I
[11:05] repeated that I never heard about an
[11:06] incident at November or Oscar flight and
[11:09] have no knowledge that they ever
[11:10] happened and I doubted they did I've
[11:12] read both of their books there are many
[11:14] inaccurate statements and events in the
[11:16] books for instance Oscar flight never
[11:19] had any
[11:21] problems now obviously there's very
[11:23] little we can draw from the 43-year-old
[11:25] memories of any of these men their
[11:27] memories do not agree at all even if
[11:30] they did it would be the documented
[11:32] evidence of what took place at that time
[11:34] that would be our primary
[11:37] source the whole case is reminiscent of
[11:39] the Roswell incident of
[11:41] 1947 which we discussed way back in
[11:44] skeptoid number 79 in that instance the
[11:47] entire story was based upon the memories
[11:49] of a young mortician working in Roswell
[11:52] Glenn Dennis ufologist Stanton fredman
[11:55] working on assignment for the national
[11:57] Inquirer tabloid worked with Dennis to
[12:00] help him reorganize his 42-year-old
[12:02] memories into a narrative that we now
[12:04] recognize as the alien crash at Roswell
[12:08] once the story became huge and people
[12:10] started submitting Freedom of
[12:12] Information Act requests to force the
[12:14] government to disclose what happened Air
[12:16] Force researchers found that the
[12:18] individual incidents Dennis remembered
[12:20] happened over a span of 12 years and had
[12:23] nothing to do with each other with
[12:25] fredman's prompting Dennis had honestly
[12:28] and with the the best of intentions
[12:30] confused his memories with one another
[12:33] unfortunately that's just the way our
[12:34] human brains
[12:36] work Bob Solace was a missile officer at
[12:39] Malmstrom for a number of years he
[12:42] remembered the echo flight incident of
[12:44] 1967 he also believes he remembers a
[12:48] time when the Oscar flight also had
[12:50] problems a memory which is probably
[12:52] incorrect as there's no record of it and
[12:54] he remembers the reporting of the Belt
[12:56] Montana UFO sightings working with with
[12:59] clots they reconstructed and rearranged
[13:02] some real incidents and some remembered
[13:04] incidents and produced the story we now
[13:06] have today that UFOs shut down nuclear
[13:10] missiles a clear threat to National
[13:13] Security except by all the records and
[13:16] data that exists no such thing ever
[13:19] happened 10 missiles of echo flight
[13:22] restarted normally following a
[13:23] commonplace commercial power failure on
[13:26] March 16th 1967 being down between 10
[13:29] and 40 seconds 8 Days Later some people
[13:33] reported a UFO to the newspapers in a
[13:35] town 50 km away there's no rational
[13:38] reason to conclude one thing had
[13:40] anything to do with the other we
[13:42] probably owe Bob Solace a vote of thanks
[13:44] for doing his best to reconstruct the
[13:46] timeline of what he believes was a
[13:48] threat to National Security but the fact
[13:50] is it simply did not happen if the
[13:53] members of today's Congressional
[13:54] subcommittees are making policy based on
[13:58] events reported in UFO books they're
[14:00] clearly disproven by the actual records
[14:02] of what took place then we may indeed
[14:05] have a threat to National Security on
[14:07] our hands one that comes from
[14:10] incompetence
[14:13] within a big thanks to former missile
[14:15] officer Lieutenant Colonel Hal bidlack
[14:18] US Air Force retired for his invaluable
[14:20] help with this
[14:26] episode a great big scap toid shout out
[14:29] to premium supporters Simon Matthews
[14:31] from Gosford Australia Pete Wilson Colby
[14:34] McAn and Tyler bio Rodriguez are you
[14:38] getting the skeptoid podcast companion
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[15:03] Dunning from skeptoid decom

Skinwalkers: An In-Depth Analysis

The concept of skinwalkers originates from the rich folklore of Native American cultures, particularly among the Navajo. These entities are described as witches or outcast criminals who practice black magic and possess the ability to shapeshift into any animal of their choosing. The term "skinwalker" refers to individuals who don the hides of animals, such as wolves or coyotes, and are said to physically transform into those creatures. This transformation is characterized by a slightly larger and disproportionate appearance, often accompanied by glowing red eyes and oversized footprints. In their human form, skinwalkers are believed to use spells and potions to inflict illness or death upon others, making them one of the most feared figures in Native American folklore.

While the skinwalker myth is prevalent among various Native American cultures, it is the Navajo tradition that is most prominently recognized. The idea of shape-shifting beings is not unique to the Navajo; it appears in many global mythologies, tracing back to early human civilizations. For instance, the Wendigo of northern tribes, the Aztec nal, and the Olmec jaguar figures all reflect this widespread theme of transformation in folklore.

Modern interpretations of skinwalker stories have evolved, often incorporating contemporary elements such as firearms and vehicles, which were introduced through European contact. Many contemporary narratives involve encounters with skinwalkers that are described as half-human creatures capable of terrifying feats, such as chasing cars at high speeds. Anecdotal accounts from law enforcement and families highlight these encounters, often depicting skinwalkers as dark, ghostly figures with supernatural abilities.

One of the most notable locations associated with skinwalker lore is Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. This ranch gained notoriety in the 1990s when Robert Bigelow, a wealthy entrepreneur, purchased it to investigate paranormal phenomena, including UFO sightings and cattle mutilations. Despite extensive research and monitoring, the scientific team led by Bigelow found little evidence to substantiate the claims of supernatural occurrences, leading to skepticism about the ranch's connection to skinwalkers.

The narrative surrounding Skinwalker Ranch has been further popularized through media and literature, notably the works of author Tony Hillerman, whose novel "Skinwalkers" intertwines Navajo mysticism with detective fiction. This cultural crossover has led to a proliferation of films and stories that explore the theme of shape-shifting witches, yet empirical evidence supporting the existence of skinwalkers remains elusive.

Interestingly, some researchers have suggested that the phenomenon of skinwalkers may be linked to psychological conditions such as clinical lycanthropy, where individuals believe they are transforming into animals. This condition often manifests in cultures where specific animals are associated with evil, paralleling the fears surrounding wolves in North America. The psychological implications of such beliefs could provide insight into the origins of the skinwalker myth, suggesting that historical instances of guilt and depression may have contributed to the development of these legends.

In conclusion, the skinwalker mythos encapsulates a complex interplay of cultural beliefs, psychological phenomena, and modern interpretations. While the stories of skinwalkers continue to captivate the imagination, they also serve as a reflection of deeper societal fears and the human tendency to explain the unexplainable through folklore and myth.

The core myth surrounding skinwalkers, as described in the transcript, revolves around a class of witches from Native American culture, particularly the Navajo. These witches are believed to practice black magic and possess the ability to shapeshift into various animals, typically wolves or coyotes. The fear associated with skinwalkers is profound; they are portrayed as malevolent beings capable of using spells and potions to harm others. This myth is deeply embedded in the cultural history of the American West, particularly among Native Americans, where the lore has persisted for centuries.

Skinwalkers are said to have distinct physical characteristics in their animal form, such as glowing red eyes and disproportionate sizes, which further amplify their fearsome reputation. The narrative includes a legal aspect where if one is suspected to be a skinwalker, it was permissible to kill them on sight, illustrating the extreme societal fears surrounding these figures.

The skinwalker legend has not only remained a significant part of Navajo culture but also finds parallels globally in various mythologies, indicating a widespread archetype of shapeshifting witches. This tradition can be traced back to ancient cultures that settled in the Americas, suggesting that the skinwalker myth may have evolved over time while maintaining its core elements of transformation and malevolence.

•  
  • [00:17] "The Skinwalkers. Witches, a class of outcast criminals who practiced black magic, were said to have the ability to shapeshift into any animal they chose."
  • [01:58] "The shape-shifting witch or sorcerer is a staple of cultural folklore."
  • [02:14] "Hardly any creature in the folklore of the Native Americans was as feared as the skinwalker."

The narrative surrounding skinwalkers, a figure rooted deeply in Native American folklore, particularly among the Navajo, has evolved over centuries, reflecting a blend of historical events, cultural exchanges, and modern interpretations. The initial concept of skinwalkers can be traced back to the tradition of witches among Native Americans, described in the transcript as outcast criminals skilled in black magic, capable of shapeshifting into animals. This ancient belief likely dates back to the time of the Anasazi, prehistoric tribes whose stories have been passed down through generations.

As the narrative expanded over time, it assimilated elements from various cultures. For instance, the transcript references other shape-shifting beings such as the Wendigo from northern tribes and various entities from Mesoamerican cultures, including the Aztec and Mayan traditions. This indicates a broader, cross-cultural theme of shapeshifting beings that has existed for millennia.

In the modern context, the skinwalker narrative has been influenced significantly by external factors, especially post-European contact. The introduction of firearms and horses led to adaptations in the stories, where skinwalkers were described in contemporary terms, such as being able to evade bullets or chase vehicles. The most notable public interest emerged in the 1990s with the purchase of Skinwalker Ranch by Robert Bigelow, which became a focal point for paranormal investigations, leading to an amalgamation of UFO sightings and skinwalker lore.

This blend of historical beliefs, modern media, and individual anecdotes has led to an evolving narrative that incorporates both traditional elements and contemporary myth-making.

• [01:10] "Some version of the American skinwalker is found in most Native American cultures, but it's the Navajo that is most prevalent."
• [12:11] "The idea of clinical lycanthropy does appear to tick all the boxes, making it a viable candidate to explain how and why the legend of the skinwalkers exists."
• [09:11] "...the name Skinwalker Ranch was chosen in recognition of the popularity of author Tony Hillerman's 1986 novel Skinwalkers..."

Several key figures have played significant roles in shaping the narrative of skinwalkers and associated lore, particularly in the context of Skinwalker Ranch. Among the most notable is Robert Bigelow, a wealthy entrepreneur known for founding Bigelow Aerospace. Bigelow purchased the ranch in 1995, motivated by a keen interest in paranormal research, which significantly elevated the profile of skinwalker stories within popular culture. His investment led to the establishment of the National Institute for Discovery Science, where he hired molecular biologist Cole Kellaher to head a team of researchers focused on investigating phenomena reported at the ranch.

Another influential figure is George Knap, a journalist and co-host of Coast to Coast AM, who was instrumental in publicizing the ranch's lore. He reported on various UFO sightings and other unusual occurrences, coining the term ‘UFO Ranch’ to attract attention. Knap’s articles helped to merge the traditional skinwalker narrative with contemporary UFO and paranormal themes, making it accessible to a broader audience.

Additionally, the Sherman family, who owned the ranch before Bigelow, are critical in this narrative. Their brief 30-month stay on the property was marked by claims of paranormal activity, which were later sensationalized by those interested in the skinwalker mythos, despite the Shermans themselves not attributing their departure to supernatural occurrences.

• [05:19] "Perhaps the best known facet of the skinwalker lore is the so-called skinwalker ranch in Utah."
• [07:01] "Bigelow called his enterprise the National Institute for Discovery Science."
• [10:14] "Their stay was short because Bigelow bought them out, not because they were driven away by UFOs or monstrous creatures."

Despite the rich tapestry of stories surrounding skinwalkers, several counter-evidences and official explanations challenge the authenticity of these myths. The transcript highlights that the lore of Skinwalker Ranch, while captivating, lacks substantial empirical evidence. For instance, Cole Kellaher and his team, as part of the National Institute for Discovery Science, conducted investigations at the ranch but found no physical evidence to substantiate claims of paranormal activity or encounters with skinwalkers. Kellaher noted that what little phenomena they did observe, such as cattle mutilations and floating lights, could often be explained through typical animal predation and known atmospheric phenomena.

The narrative also addresses the sensationalism surrounding the Sherman family's departure from the ranch. While paranormal enthusiasts often cite their short tenure as an indication of genuine supernatural activity, it was revealed that their exit was primarily due to Bigelow's financial interest, as he purchased the property from them. This detail underscores how anecdotal evidence can be misleading when taken out of context.

Furthermore, the concept of clinical lycanthropy is mentioned as a psychological phenomenon that could provide insight into the skinwalker lore. This condition involves individuals believing they can transform into animals, often linked to mental health issues rather than actual shapeshifting. This established psychological basis suggests that many tales of skinwalkers could stem from misunderstood human behavior rather than supernatural occurrences.

• [08:10] "...the only real phenomena anyone ever experienced there were occasional cattle mutilations and floating lights."
• [10:01] "The Shermans themselves have never given this as the explanation."
• [10:30] "...the psychiatric literature is indeed sprinkled with cases where patients held delusional beliefs that they were animals..."

The construction of a singular conspiracy narrative surrounding skinwalkers involves the integration of various, often unrelated local occurrences that have been sensationalized or misinterpreted over time. As described in the transcript, the skinwalker legend has roots in the deep cultural practices of the Navajo and other Native American tribes but has expanded to incorporate numerous anecdotal stories from different regions and contexts.

The narrative stitching begins with the historical background of skinwalkers as witches capable of shapeshifting, which is prevalent in many cultures worldwide. This foundational belief laid the groundwork for the subsequent integration of modern tales and experiences reported by various individuals. For instance, the transcript recounts several eyewitness accounts from police officers and families who reported encounters with strange creatures resembling skinwalkers.

These accounts, though separate and originating from different locales (like New Mexico and Arizona), have been woven together to form a cohesive narrative, often amplified by modern media and the fascination with the paranormal. The case of the two New Mexico Highway Patrol officers encountering a creature running alongside their vehicle is an example where disparate local stories were merged into the broader skinwalker mythos.

Additionally, the involvement of figures like George Knap and the sensationalist media coverage of Skinwalker Ranch further solidified this narrative, bringing together disparate elements, such as UFO sightings and animal mutilations, into a singular, compelling story that captivates public imagination. This process demonstrates how folklore can evolve and adapt through cultural exchanges and modern interpretations, often leading to a complex web of beliefs that may not accurately reflect the original traditions.

• [02:08] "The list of transforming beings from Europe, Asia, and Africa, from folklore alone... would fill an encyclopedia."
• [02:15] "...stories of the Navajo skinwalker today carry a modern touch..."
• [09:09] "It was probably this novel's success that suggested to Bigelow and Knap that capitalizing on the scary sounding word skinwalker would be a good marketing choice..."

[00:01] [music]
[00:03] You're listening to Skeptoid. I'm Brian
[00:05] Dunning from skeptoid.com.
[00:08] Skinwalkers. [music]
[00:10] From the plains of the American West
[00:12] comes a story with a history as long as
[00:14] that of the Native Americans themselves.
[00:17] The Skinwalkers. Witches, a class of
[00:20] outcast criminals who practiced black
[00:22] magic, were said to have the ability to
[00:24] shapeshift into any animal they chose.
[00:27] Such people were called skinwalkers, and
[00:30] if one was suspected, it was legal to
[00:32] kill them on site. Skinwalkers would
[00:35] take the hide of a wolf or coyote, put
[00:37] it on, and were said to physically
[00:39] transform into that animal. They would
[00:42] appear slightly too large,
[00:44] disproportionate, and have red glowing
[00:46] eyes. They left oversized animal
[00:49] footprints. When in human form, skinw
[00:52] walkers used various spells and potions
[00:55] to sicken and kill those around them.
[00:58] And as animals, they were fierce,
[01:00] vicious, and bloodthirsty. Hardly any
[01:03] creature in the folklore of the Native
[01:04] Americans was as feared as the
[01:07] skinwalker.
[01:10] Some version of the American skinwalker
[01:12] is found in most Native American
[01:13] cultures, but it's the Navajo that is
[01:16] most prevalent. But shape-shifting
[01:18] humans are common in the mythology of
[01:20] almost every culture worldwide. In fact,
[01:23] we can even trace the shape-shifting
[01:24] witches along the human civilizations
[01:27] that first entered the Americas via the
[01:29] Bearing Strait from Asia, beginning with
[01:31] the Wendigo of the northern tribes. The
[01:34] Navajo tradition comes down from the
[01:36] Anosazi, an umbrella term for the
[01:38] prehistoric Native American tribes. And
[01:40] we can follow the stories south from
[01:42] there as humanity gradually filled the
[01:45] continent. From the Aztec nal in what is
[01:48] today Mexico, the Olme wear jaguar, the
[01:52] Mayan hai chivbo and wyab all the way
[01:55] down to the Chilean and Argentinian
[01:57] chonchon. The shape-shifting witch or
[01:59] sorcerer is a staple of cultural
[02:02] folklore. The list of transforming
[02:04] beings from Europe, Asia, and Africa,
[02:06] from folklore alone, even omitting
[02:08] fiction, would fill an encyclopedia.
[02:13] Most stories of the Navajo skinwalker
[02:15] today carry a modern touch, such as the
[02:18] various ways skinwalkers could and could
[02:20] not be killed with bullets. This may be
[02:23] simply because it wasn't until European
[02:25] culture began to mix with the Native
[02:26] Americans and introduced things like
[02:29] guns and horses that the stories were
[02:31] translated into English. Stories of the
[02:34] skinw walkers are usually about strange
[02:36] halfhuml looking creatures chasing cars
[02:39] and terrorizing the innocent on foot.
[02:42] Here's a sampling.
[02:46] Two New Mexico Highway Patrol officers
[02:48] experienced nearly identical terrifying
[02:50] encounters as they discovered when
[02:53] comparing notes later. Both were driving
[02:55] on lonely stretches of road late at
[02:57] night outside of Gallup, New Mexico.
[03:00] [music]
[03:00] They described hideous dark creatures
[03:02] who appeared to be wearing what they
[03:04] called ghostly masks and ran alongside
[03:07] the patrol cars at full highway speed,
[03:10] seemingly trying to get in.
[03:16] >> [groaning]
[03:18] >> In 1983, a family in Flagstaff, Arizona
[03:21] was woken in the middle of the night by
[03:22] the sound of drumming outside.
[03:25] Investigating, they saw the dark forms
[03:27] of three men repeatedly [clears throat]
[03:28] trying and failing to climb a fence to
[03:31] get onto their property. They invited a
[03:33] Navajo woman to investigate, and she
[03:36] reported that the men had been
[03:37] skinwalkers who wanted the family's
[03:39] power, but couldn't get in because some
[03:42] spell was protecting the home.
[03:47] A Bureau of Indian Affairs security
[03:49] officer working on the Ute Reservation
[03:51] near Fort Duchen spotted a large dark
[03:54] round looking creature outside a tribal
[03:56] building that vaulted a wall and ran
[03:58] away with surprising speed when
[04:00] confronted. He called another officer
[04:02] and the two chased it through the
[04:04] neighborhood called Little Chicago. It
[04:07] knocked over trash cans throughout the
[04:09] town as it escaped. They described its
[04:11] eyes as coal red and unusually large.
[04:20] A family driving through the Navajo
[04:22] reservation along Route 163 in southern
[04:25] Utah was shocked as a dark, hairy animal
[04:27] wearing a man's clothes suddenly sprang
[04:30] out of a ditch and lunged at their truck
[04:32] with its arms up over its head. It had
[04:35] glowing eyes and despite its dark fur,
[04:38] looked like no animal they'd ever seen.
[04:40] They sped away, leaving the ugly beast
[04:42] behind. [music]
[04:45] >> Skinwalker tradition holds that if one
[04:46] is shot, but only wounded, the wound
[04:49] will still be there when it transforms
[04:50] back into human shape. It's also said
[04:53] that to be killed, a skinw walker in
[04:54] animal form must be shot through the
[04:56] neck. This goes back to the way an
[04:58] animal skin is worn ceremonially with
[05:01] the animals head on top of the person's
[05:03] head and its skin draped over the
[05:04] person's back. Shooting the skin walker
[05:07] in the neck thus pierces the head of the
[05:09] human inside. Any other shot merely
[05:12] creates a harmless wound.
[05:15] Perhaps the best known facet of the
[05:17] skinwalker lore is the so-called
[05:19] skinwalker ranch in Utah. To understand
[05:22] Skinwalker Ranch, you have to know
[05:24] Robert Bigalow, the wealthy hotel
[05:27] entrepreneur who owns the Budget Suites
[05:28] of America hotel chain. Today, he's best
[05:31] known as the founder of Bigalow
[05:33] Aerospace, a private space ventures
[05:36] company that wants to expand into
[05:37] orbiting space hotels. Bigalow Aerospace
[05:41] is very serious. They actually launched
[05:43] two modules, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, in
[05:46] 2006 and 2007 that remain in orbit as of
[05:50] this date. But in 1995,
[05:53] Bigalow himself was more interested in
[05:56] spending his vast fortune on paranormal
[05:59] research.
[06:01] There was a 480 acre ranch owned by the
[06:04] Sherman family in Utah's largely barren
[06:06] Uenta County, which was popularly
[06:08] believed to have a long history of
[06:10] unusual UFO sightings, cattle
[06:13] mutilations, strange creatures, and
[06:15] other assorted colorful tales. Its story
[06:18] was brought to the popular consciousness
[06:20] by journalist and Coast to Coast AM
[06:22] co-host George Knap. The same guy who
[06:25] introduced fellow Las Vegas resident Bob
[06:28] Lazar to the world. Bob Lazar was a
[06:30] hostster who for a time convinced a lot
[06:32] of ufologists that he had been an
[06:34] engineer working for the military at
[06:36] Area 51, reverse engineering alien
[06:39] spacecraft. So, Knap was the perfect man
[06:42] to publicize the Sherman ranch under his
[06:44] nickname for it, UFO Ranch. Nap
[06:48] published a few articles in local Utah
[06:50] papers and in Nap's own weekly column in
[06:52] Las Vegas, telling about the UFOs said
[06:55] to fly around the ranch. Nap's publicity
[06:59] caught the attention of Robert Bigalow,
[07:01] who purchased the ranch in 1995 and then
[07:04] hired molecular biologist Cole Kellaher
[07:07] to head up his science team, which
[07:09] included a handful of PhDs in various
[07:11] disciplines. Bigalow called his
[07:14] enterprise the National Institute for
[07:16] Discovery Science.
[07:20] For the better part of a decade, Bigalow
[07:22] and Keller's group set up shop on the
[07:24] ranch and with an assortment of
[07:25] paranormal researchers and working
[07:27] scientists who had interests in the
[07:28] paranormal made observations. They
[07:32] called it Skinwalker Ranch. With a small
[07:35] portable building as a command post,
[07:37] they kept the ranch manned 24 hours a
[07:39] day to record any phenomena with remote
[07:41] cameras, and NAP reported on any
[07:43] sightings they collected. They never
[07:46] found anything Keller would describe as
[07:48] physical evidence of anything. In fact,
[07:50] the only real phenomena anyone ever
[07:52] experienced there were occasional cattle
[07:54] mutilations and floating lights. From my
[07:57] read of Knap's reporting, none of it
[07:59] sounded outside the realm of normal
[08:01] cattle carcass predation and the various
[08:03] types of ghost lights we've discussed
[08:05] here on Skeptoid. Skinwalker Ranch seems
[08:08] to have little or nothing to do with
[08:10] skinwalkers.
[08:13] Knap and Kellaher eventually published
[08:15] all this in a book called Hunt for the
[08:17] Skinwalker, which paradoxically was
[08:20] mostly about hunting UFOs instead. The
[08:23] explanation for the name Skinwalker
[08:25] Ranch came from their friend ufologist
[08:28] Junior Hicks, who told that the ranch
[08:30] was quote in the path of the skinwalker.
[08:33] According to, as he said, a curse that
[08:35] the Navajo once placed on the Utes. I
[08:38] was not able to find any historical
[08:40] basis for this suggestion. More likely,
[08:43] the name Skinwalker Ranch was chosen in
[08:45] recognition of the popularity of author
[08:47] Tony Hillerman's 1986 novel Skinwalkers,
[08:51] which is said to have been a pretty
[08:53] decent read and had a classic
[08:55] juxtaposition of Navajo mysticism with
[08:58] modern detective science. It was
[09:00] probably this novel's success that
[09:02] suggested to Bigalow and Knap that
[09:05] capitalizing on the scary sounding word
[09:07] skinwalker would be a good marketing
[09:09] choice for their ranch and non-fiction
[09:11] book.
[09:13] Others have thought so too. At least
[09:15] three movies have since been made,
[09:17] either based on Hillerman's novel or
[09:19] leveraging its same theme of Navajo
[09:21] werewolves. But other than anecdotal
[09:24] stories like those given earlier and the
[09:26] plentiful cultural mythology, there's
[09:28] never been any evidence that real skinw
[09:30] walkers have ever been anything more
[09:32] than unnamed, unknown Native Americans
[09:35] who dawned animal hides and fancied
[09:38] themselves witches.
[09:41] But believers in the legend, at least
[09:43] believers outside of the Native American
[09:45] culture, have worked hard to suggest
[09:47] that shape-shifting witches might be
[09:49] real. In paranormal literature about
[09:52] Skinwalker Ranch, much is often made of
[09:54] the fact that the Sherman family lasted
[09:56] only 30 months on the property before
[09:58] leaving, ostensibly due to all the
[10:01] paranormal activity. The Shermans
[10:04] themselves have never given this as the
[10:05] explanation. True, they'd lived there
[10:07] only 30 months, but then Robert Bigalow
[10:10] knocked on their door with his enormous
[10:11] checkbook and bought it from them. Their
[10:14] stay was short because Bigalow bought
[10:16] them out, not because they were driven
[10:18] away by UFOs or monstrous creatures.
[10:23] Some have also pointed to clinical
[10:24] lyanthropy, a bonafide psychological
[10:27] condition, as a legitimate basis for the
[10:30] authenticity of skinwalkers. It turns
[10:33] out that the psychiatric literature is
[10:35] indeed sprinkled with cases where
[10:37] patients held delusional beliefs that
[10:39] they were animals, which is what
[10:41] lyanthropy is. These cases give us two
[10:44] interesting clues that may help us to
[10:46] understand the skinwalker phenomenon and
[10:49] the larger worldwide idea of shape
[10:52] shifters in general.
[10:55] First, it turns out that such cases are
[10:57] generally found in patients who believe
[10:58] it to be a punishment for some sinful
[11:00] act. While the good news today is that
[11:03] the symptom of lyanthropic delusion is
[11:06] usually easily reversible with
[11:07] psychiatric treatment, the interesting
[11:09] part is that the patient believes it to
[11:11] be associated with evil.
[11:14] Navajo witches who become skinw walkers
[11:16] are said to be unscrupulous and
[11:19] motivated by selfishness.
[11:21] Such a person who may be distraught with
[11:23] guilt over some sinful act might fall
[11:26] into clinical depression. And these
[11:28] cases have usually been major depressive
[11:31] disorders with psychotic features.
[11:35] Second, a 2012 literature survey of many
[11:38] such cases found that the specific
[11:40] animal by which the patient believed
[11:42] himself to be demonically possessed
[11:45] varied by culture. In each culture, an
[11:48] animal associated with evil was usually
[11:50] the subject of the delusion. Wolves have
[11:53] been mankind's most feared predator
[11:55] throughout Europe and North America. So,
[11:58] it's not at all surprising that
[11:59] sufferers of clinical lychanthropy would
[12:02] manifest as werewolves in Europe and as
[12:05] skinw walkers in North America. The idea
[12:08] of clinical lyanthropy does appear to
[12:11] tick all the boxes, making it a viable
[12:14] candidate to explain how and why the
[12:16] legend of the skinwalkers exists.
[12:20] Perhaps in an episode lost to history,
[12:22] some Navajo tortured by guilt and
[12:24] depression believed himself possessed by
[12:27] a wolf spirit as punishment for his
[12:29] sins. Perhaps he acted out the role and
[12:32] perhaps the story was told and retold
[12:34] and medicine was developed to
[12:36] contextualize the concept of the
[12:38] skinwalker. It could well be that the
[12:41] Navajo skinwalker is the result of
[12:43] well-meaning shaman codifying their
[12:45] belief into an official explanation and
[12:48] response plan. This is what a skinwalker
[12:50] is. This is what should be done about
[12:52] them if one appears. This is pure
[12:55] speculation of course, but the
[12:56] information we have suggests that some
[12:59] such circumstances probably have taken
[13:02] place in many cultures. And thus, we can
[13:04] easily imagine how the actions of many
[13:06] disturbed individuals over the centuries
[13:09] could result in the pre-scientific
[13:11] belief and a resulting deep cultural
[13:14] tradition that skinwalkers are real,
[13:17] that they do indeed physically
[13:19] transform, and that they can indeed be
[13:21] found witching their incantations and
[13:24] charms over a fire.
[13:31] You're listening to Skeptoid. I'm Brian
[13:33] Dunning from skeptoid.com.